War Protesters

goodsmitty wrote: Badsmitty wrote: Wow Dune and goodsmitty.  This is just the most heartwarming thing watching you two bond.  It reminds me of George Bush and Jeff Gannon embracing.  I think that from now on I'll have Barbara Steisand's song Memories playing in the background when I read your posts.  Let's see, you and I have like, one ally on this forum, so don't insult him please. And I will shoulder your insult because it includes a negative reference to our president. The crosses I bear.

Badsmitty wrote: Wow Dune and goodsmitty.  This is just the most heartwarming thing watching you two bond.  It reminds me of George Bush and Jeff Gannon embracing.  I think that from now on I'll have Barbara Steisand's song Memories playing in the background when I read your posts.

Hahaha it's true. However, I don't think you can compare me to Gannon. I really doubt I am limber and flexible as he is.

MT. Vigilante wrote: MattyJ wrote: goodsmitty wrote: Why not thank them all? Any public servant who risks their lives (police, fire fighters, EMS, and soldiers) deserve our respect. In peace time, soldiers suffer far fewer casualties than police officers, and vice versa in war. I don't agree with your show of disdain for soldiers just because they are getting their due (insert smiley of choice here, you know I'm your pal). Firefighters and police officers got their due after hundreds lost their lives in the world trade center collapse. But I absolutely agree that not all soldiers are boy scouts, and some are downright criminals. I'm not going to enter into this debate, because neither side will ever agree, nor will either side convince the others to embrace their beliefs (yes, I am including myself in this group.) However, one thing you said jumped out at me and I just need to clarify something. You're not advocating that all police officers are cops, are you? The majority of cops have broken at least one law (no matter how major or minor) that they are charged to enforce, simply because there was nobody to stop them. Just wanted to clarify that with you. I don’t know where you are from but where I live it is common knowledge that “Cop” is just another word for Police Officer. And what in the world does the fact that everybody commits some kind of small crime ( example: speeding) including cops, have to do with cops and firemen during 9/11 giving their lives just doing their jobs! I don't care what they did in the past, all of them are heros.

Wow, you missed the entire point of my post. Perhaps you failed reading comprehension in grade school? First off, I was in no way implying that "cop" and "police officer" were at all different. Second, I'm from NJ, and a lot of NJ police and firefighters lost their lives in the 9/11 attacks. But that doesn't mean that all cops are saints. Goodsmitty said that some soldiers are downright criminals. I agree with this, because there are some soldiers that cross the line. But I was just wanted to make sure that it was understood that all of the groups that are considered heros have some bad apples in them. It doesn't mean we should look down on the group as a whole, but we need to know the difference between a few bad apples and a corrupt system. I think that goodsmitty feels as I do in this matter, but I just wanted to clarify it.

In addition to an earlier reply I made in this thread I mentioned that I followed my orders and did my job. Yes, soldiers do what they're told, however it is also our duty to make sure that our actions during a time of conflict/crisis does not go against human morality/ethics as those few Marines demonstrated in Iraq, treating those Iraqi's as they did. Frankly I believe they and those charged with the responsibility of monitoring their troops should burn for it. Those Iraqi's were Prisoners of War, interrogation was good enough, but being defiled as they were was wrong. Hands down. I know that our troops being defiled by the Iraq's wasn't right, it was heinous, but why stoop to their ignorance? Two wrongs don't make a right and if it were so, this planet would be in constant battle and as we all know, there are no winners in War, it aint a sport. Unfortunately, those few Marines are the reasons why the names are flung and assumptions made. Peeps need to understand that the majority of the military are good men and women that only want to serve their country and make their families proud. The small band of rabble rousers in uniform is a reflection of the civilian sector, they were once civies too. I dont hate Hipsters and I don't always disagree with what they say. They have some valuable points to make too, but don't raz a soldier. Raz the politicians.

goodsmitty wrote: Why not thank them all? Any public servant who risks their lives (police, fire fighters, EMS, and soldiers) deserve our respect. In peace time, soldiers suffer far fewer casualties than police officers, and vice versa in war. I don't agree with your show of disdain for soldiers just because they are getting their due (insert smiley of choice here, you know I'm your pal). Firefighters and police officers got their due after hundreds lost their lives in the world trade center collapse. But I absolutely agree that not all soldiers are boy scouts, and some are downright criminals.

I'm not going to enter into this debate, because neither side will ever agree, nor will either side convince the others to embrace their beliefs (yes, I am including myself in this group.) However, one thing you said jumped out at me and I just need to clarify something. You're not advocating that all police officers are cops, are you? The majority of cops have broken at least one law (no matter how major or minor) that they are charged to enforce, simply because there was nobody to stop them. Just wanted to clarify that with you.

...not "babykiller" but rather "agitator"--possibly even "troll." It really doesn't matter how long you have been here.

Dune wrote: I applaud and hope you see where I'm coming from.

Absolutely. The height of the hypocrisy was the Jessica Lynch fiasco. She was a "hero" because she cowered in the back of a Humvee and lived to tell about it. What was particularly sad was that another soldier in her unit killed 9 Iraqis in that battle before being killed himself and received zero recognition.

I am fed up with this ultra-patriotism that considers any oversight of soldiers on the battlefield as being distrusting and insulting. The same ultra-patriots consider any who question the motives of the government as unpatriotic or downright treason. We are living in 1928 Nazi Germany right now, my friend-cart all arabs off to prison and deny them a trial (Guantanamo Bay), allow the government to spy on the people (the Patriot act), and scare the people to death (the terror warning system, which evidently overheated around Nov 2004 and hasn't worked since the election).

"Revisionist history" is a popular term these days. Try history, I say.

Edited by goodsmitty

^^^Haha. Sometimes I choose eloquence, sometimes confrontation. Neither changes anybody's mind on this forum, and confrontation is more fun, so confrontation usually wins.

I will choose eloquence this Saturday when I take the podium, I assure you.

Dune wrote: goodsmitty wrote: TheUnknown. wrote: Dune wrote: Haha, you're telling me I'm more free? Nope. Maybe the Iraqi's are, but not myself. I would have had the same freedoms before and after the war.   We didn't go into this war to free ourselves nimwit, we went into it to a.) Free the oppressed and downtrodden iraqi people. b.)Remove of Terrorist groups, so that they do not have the ability to commit terrorist acts in our nation. Unlike other nations like Japan, China, Iran, ect... and obviously yourself, the president and those around him are greatly interested in other thing than themselves. Cletus and Lulabelle history 101.... No, we went to disarm them of WMD, destroy the al-Qaeda training camps on every block, and stop the imminent attack on our soil from Iraqi nuclear weapons. As those things were all fiction, we have chosen to liberate much Iraqi oil. Exactly. Freedom of Iraqi's was 4th on the long list of lies. Anyways, what do you tell the people that claim these soldiers are fighting for our freedom? Yeah right. I don't feel the need to thank every soldier I come across because I know there are hundreds and thousands of civil service workers that deserve the same thanks.

Why not thank them all? Any public servant who risks their lives (police, fire fighters, EMS, and soldiers) deserve our respect. In peace time, soldiers suffer far fewer casualties than police officers, and vice versa in war.

I don't agree with your show of disdain for soldiers just because they are getting their due (insert smiley of choice here, you know I'm your pal). Firefighters and police officers got their due after hundreds lost their lives in the world trade center collapse. But I absolutely agree that not all soldiers are boy scouts, and some are downright criminals.

TheUnknown. wrote: Dune wrote: Haha, you're telling me I'm more free? Nope. Maybe the Iraqi's are, but not myself. I would have had the same freedoms before and after the war.   We didn't go into this war to free ourselves nimwit, we went into it to a.) Free the oppressed and downtrodden iraqi people. b.)Remove of Terrorist groups, so that they do not have the ability to commit terrorist acts in our nation. Unlike other nations like Japan, China, Iran, ect... and obviously yourself, the president and those around him are greatly interested in other thing than themselves.

Cletus and Lulabelle history 101....

No, we went to disarm them of WMD, destroy the al-Qaeda training camps on every block, and stop the imminent attack on our soil from Iraqi nuclear weapons. As those things were all fiction, we have chosen to liberate much Iraqi oil.

Edited by goodsmitty