War Protesters

Dune wrote: I applaud and hope you see where I'm coming from.

Absolutely. The height of the hypocrisy was the Jessica Lynch fiasco. She was a "hero" because she cowered in the back of a Humvee and lived to tell about it. What was particularly sad was that another soldier in her unit killed 9 Iraqis in that battle before being killed himself and received zero recognition.

I am fed up with this ultra-patriotism that considers any oversight of soldiers on the battlefield as being distrusting and insulting. The same ultra-patriots consider any who question the motives of the government as unpatriotic or downright treason. We are living in 1928 Nazi Germany right now, my friend-cart all arabs off to prison and deny them a trial (Guantanamo Bay), allow the government to spy on the people (the Patriot act), and scare the people to death (the terror warning system, which evidently overheated around Nov 2004 and hasn't worked since the election).

"Revisionist history" is a popular term these days. Try history, I say.

Edited by goodsmitty

...not "babykiller" but rather "agitator"--possibly even "troll." It really doesn't matter how long you have been here.

goodsmitty wrote: Why not thank them all? Any public servant who risks their lives (police, fire fighters, EMS, and soldiers) deserve our respect. In peace time, soldiers suffer far fewer casualties than police officers, and vice versa in war. I don't agree with your show of disdain for soldiers just because they are getting their due (insert smiley of choice here, you know I'm your pal). Firefighters and police officers got their due after hundreds lost their lives in the world trade center collapse. But I absolutely agree that not all soldiers are boy scouts, and some are downright criminals.

I'm not going to enter into this debate, because neither side will ever agree, nor will either side convince the others to embrace their beliefs (yes, I am including myself in this group.) However, one thing you said jumped out at me and I just need to clarify something. You're not advocating that all police officers are cops, are you? The majority of cops have broken at least one law (no matter how major or minor) that they are charged to enforce, simply because there was nobody to stop them. Just wanted to clarify that with you.

In addition to an earlier reply I made in this thread I mentioned that I followed my orders and did my job. Yes, soldiers do what they're told, however it is also our duty to make sure that our actions during a time of conflict/crisis does not go against human morality/ethics as those few Marines demonstrated in Iraq, treating those Iraqi's as they did. Frankly I believe they and those charged with the responsibility of monitoring their troops should burn for it. Those Iraqi's were Prisoners of War, interrogation was good enough, but being defiled as they were was wrong. Hands down. I know that our troops being defiled by the Iraq's wasn't right, it was heinous, but why stoop to their ignorance? Two wrongs don't make a right and if it were so, this planet would be in constant battle and as we all know, there are no winners in War, it aint a sport. Unfortunately, those few Marines are the reasons why the names are flung and assumptions made. Peeps need to understand that the majority of the military are good men and women that only want to serve their country and make their families proud. The small band of rabble rousers in uniform is a reflection of the civilian sector, they were once civies too. I dont hate Hipsters and I don't always disagree with what they say. They have some valuable points to make too, but don't raz a soldier. Raz the politicians.

MT. Vigilante wrote: MattyJ wrote: goodsmitty wrote: Why not thank them all? Any public servant who risks their lives (police, fire fighters, EMS, and soldiers) deserve our respect. In peace time, soldiers suffer far fewer casualties than police officers, and vice versa in war. I don't agree with your show of disdain for soldiers just because they are getting their due (insert smiley of choice here, you know I'm your pal). Firefighters and police officers got their due after hundreds lost their lives in the world trade center collapse. But I absolutely agree that not all soldiers are boy scouts, and some are downright criminals. I'm not going to enter into this debate, because neither side will ever agree, nor will either side convince the others to embrace their beliefs (yes, I am including myself in this group.) However, one thing you said jumped out at me and I just need to clarify something. You're not advocating that all police officers are cops, are you? The majority of cops have broken at least one law (no matter how major or minor) that they are charged to enforce, simply because there was nobody to stop them. Just wanted to clarify that with you. I don’t know where you are from but where I live it is common knowledge that “Cop” is just another word for Police Officer. And what in the world does the fact that everybody commits some kind of small crime ( example: speeding) including cops, have to do with cops and firemen during 9/11 giving their lives just doing their jobs! I don't care what they did in the past, all of them are heros.

Wow, you missed the entire point of my post. Perhaps you failed reading comprehension in grade school? First off, I was in no way implying that "cop" and "police officer" were at all different. Second, I'm from NJ, and a lot of NJ police and firefighters lost their lives in the 9/11 attacks. But that doesn't mean that all cops are saints. Goodsmitty said that some soldiers are downright criminals. I agree with this, because there are some soldiers that cross the line. But I was just wanted to make sure that it was understood that all of the groups that are considered heros have some bad apples in them. It doesn't mean we should look down on the group as a whole, but we need to know the difference between a few bad apples and a corrupt system. I think that goodsmitty feels as I do in this matter, but I just wanted to clarify it.

Badsmitty wrote: Wow Dune and goodsmitty.  This is just the most heartwarming thing watching you two bond.  It reminds me of George Bush and Jeff Gannon embracing.  I think that from now on I'll have Barbara Steisand's song Memories playing in the background when I read your posts.

Hahaha it's true. However, I don't think you can compare me to Gannon. I really doubt I am limber and flexible as he is.

goodsmitty wrote: Badsmitty wrote: Wow Dune and goodsmitty.  This is just the most heartwarming thing watching you two bond.  It reminds me of George Bush and Jeff Gannon embracing.  I think that from now on I'll have Barbara Steisand's song Memories playing in the background when I read your posts.  Let's see, you and I have like, one ally on this forum, so don't insult him please. And I will shoulder your insult because it includes a negative reference to our president. The crosses I bear.

Thor wrote: Why Military Force Is Sometimes Needed. Here's what you can do when you happen upon one of those stupid, naive, idiots that just can't seem to understand why force is sometimes needed: 1) Find the person involved in "no retaliation" type discussion. 2) Engage him in brief conversation, then ask if military force is appropriate. 3) When he says "No," ask, "Why not?" 4) Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence." 5) When he's in mid-sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can. 6) When he gets back up to up to punch you, point out that it would be a mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would, "be awful and he should not cause more violence." 7) Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence. 8) Punch him in the face again, harder this time

If you see me at a peace rally, by all means see if that works. 

Edited by Badsmitty

goodsmitty wrote: goodsmitty wrote: Badsmitty wrote: Wow Dune and goodsmitty.  This is just the most heartwarming thing watching you two bond.  It reminds me of George Bush and Jeff Gannon embracing.  I think that from now on I'll have Barbara Steisand's song Memories playing in the background when I read your posts.  Let's see, you and I have like, one ally on this forum, so don't insult him please. And I will shoulder your insult because it includes a negative reference to our president. The crosses I bear.

You know, you guys are right and I'm way wrong.  The song is actually "The way we were."  Sorry about that.

Wonderfull little debate, problem is I have heard it all before, 35 or so years ago......

Do we feel any better or safer, for most probably not for many here, or our "brave" protesters never saw first hand how in thier mind glorious "Peoples Liberation Armies" or "National Liberation Fronts" or whatever the tyrant of the day cares to claim his force is called treats his own peoples who may thru a moment of freedom not agree with the resident tyrants minions. Many of you have no idea what a true attrocity is, never smelled death a klick away as you approach a ville, never seen a victim of a mass rape, or a disembowled village elder, or a dismembered child, in you mind a true attrocity is only a stack of naked Iraqis where the intent of the exercise is to remove the only thing we could thier dignaty, and if you do not understand the methodology that in itself shows the ignorance and blindness of the pacifist. And by the way never saw a news man or camaraman takin any pictures of any of these Vietnamese villes, or Honduran villes, because even then it did not meet the agendas of the time.

As for the "babykiller" reference, you two smitty"s need to review your past postings...and I quote...."But our entire nation calls little dead children in Iraq "collateral damage." Are our little white American fetuses more precious than little brown Iraqi ones?" veiled referance but the point is American servicemen still intentionally kill "little dead children". And another true anti-war or anti-violence statement from our resident leftists,"Woot! Getting ready for the March 19 protests! I even have a few extra days off in case I get arrested. I hope I get to do a pre-emptive strike on those Protest Warrior fools if they show up."

And where was all the rightious indignation while the Democratic hero Mr Clinton was bombing "aspirin factories", "babyfood plants" and even a real honest to god "Chinese Embasy" with real Chinese inside, and all the deaths of innocent Serb children killed by the bombings, oh we were too worried on the vast right wing conspiricy while Mr Clinton was getting ......skys.....

At least be consistant folks......protest all wars, acts of aggression, attrocities, not the ones the DNC decides may get them back into power again.

And maybe, just maybe if these protestors actually did some true investigating instead of hoping on the popular bandwagon, many of these DNC talking points may be questioned, but by their agenda, they prefere not to for the true point of the exercise is as usual an attack on President Bush, and his administration....no true Democratic ideas to spout other than Bush is wrong.

Ask the Danes, Belgians, Norwegians, French how they were told Herr Hitler was no threat and their will be "Peace in our Time", and until the end there were French protestors to a "criminal" war, right up until the French Surrender in May 1940.

Not revisionist history, just history in its cycle of repeating itself again....65 years later....Radical Islam and its individual and or nation state supporters are no threat to the west..........








Edited by oldsoldier