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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Points: 8716 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2005 at 8:44pm

I'm not sure if it is selective memory, or just selective observation in the first place.  Hard to tell the difference sometimes.

Another interesting phrase:  "Effort justification."
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Bolt3 View Drop Down
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Bowling for Columbine.

Good movie.

Go watch it.

Americans kill eachother with guns thousands more times than other countries and our friendly neighbors to the north.

Amercians are violent people.

It's not the soldiers faults' but their leaders.
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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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The gospel according to Micheal Moore, Americans are not violent, every socirty has those who for thier own personal gratifacation inflict pain on others.

If you want to point blame, how about violent video games that glorify killing......desensitize youth to what shooting someone actually does, no reset button....
Violent and graphic movies......and the list goes on...and of course it is your right to view this.....care to compare the youth violent crime rate pre video game era to today...may shock you
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Bolt3 View Drop Down
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Points: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2005 at 9:19pm
Yes, but don't they have the EXACT same things in other countries? Don't most of those things actually come from other countries?

/me only 14 so don't beat me up.
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I disagree that it is the video games causing the violence.

Most youth/people are aware that video games are fiction and fantasy only.

Video games and movie violence are the scapegoats because the real problems are being ignored.

The same video games (even more violent in some cases) are being played in other nations and their crime rates have not increased...

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Points: 8716 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2005 at 9:21pm

Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:

Bowling for Columbine.

Good movie.

Go watch it.

Really annoying/boring/stupid movie.

 

Originally posted by OS OS wrote:

.....care to compare the youth violent crime rate pre video game era to today...may shock you

Good reason why correlational statistics should be kept out of the hands of the underinformed.

 

BTW, OS, not to get picky or anything, but a sig complaining about idiots works a lot better with proper spelling.  You might want to fix that.

Originally posted by OS's Sig OS's Sig wrote:

My motto is: Never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to thier level and beat you with expierience.

Although at least you aren't calling people "retarted", unlike some of our members...
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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Just a case point....not a proven fact on violence rates......but in the Columbine shooting did not the shooters use a movie as the basis of their motive?
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Points: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2005 at 9:24pm
Their MAIN motif was society looking down upon them.

They were the kids always called "**edited**s" and "**edited**" and things like that.

All they wanted was revenge and how society is degrading. Look at Rome.

Great empire until they had to much. Couldn't handle it, and they died out.

Isn't that what America is becoming?
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Hades View Drop Down
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In my opinion, it was a stretch by the media. I believe in a home video one of them was taped saying that they were going to shoot up and kill just.."just like in Doom." [Doom being a popular video game at the time.]

In this instance this could have been an influence on the 2 boys, but for the millions of others that played the game, they figured out that the game was strictly fanasty. Also in that particular video game, the player shoots aliens, not humans.

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Points: 8716 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2005 at 9:32pm
^^^^  Demons.  In Doom the Marine shoots demons, not aliens.  Get your classic FPS right - sheesh!
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Points: 13014 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2005 at 9:37pm
Gahh! Your right! I was so busy whipping through the game that I didnt pay any attention to the story line. Plus, I dont think that my laptop from back then had a sound card.

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Our computer labs all have Doom 95 mysteriously present...

It even has online multiplayer.
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I protest all wars, I'm consistent.

Anyways, it seems too much of a scapegoat to blame movies and video games. I guess that's what happens when people don't feel the need to take responsibility for themselves and their children.

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Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Do we feel any better or safer, for most probably not for many here, or our "brave" protesters never saw first hand how in thier mind glorious "Peoples Liberation Armies" or "National Liberation Fronts" or whatever the tyrant of the day cares to claim his force is called treats his own peoples who may thru a moment of freedom not agree with the resident tyrants minions.

OS, way to put words into our mouths, no one was trumpeting how great Saddam was, hell We agree, evil man. So why don't you just shove those lies right up in there?

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


As for the "babykiller" reference, you two smitty"s need to review your past postings...and I quote...."But our entire nation calls little dead children in Iraq "collateral damage." Are our little white American fetuses more precious than little brown Iraqi ones?" veiled referance but the point is American servicemen still intentionally kill "little dead children".

Hmm, and yet more masterful word twisting, great, for propogandist agitation, not so great for honest debate. No one is insinuating that soldiers are deliberatly killing iraqi children (IE baby killers), this is to compare the right wings enormous concern over a few aborted fetuses to their apathy towards tens of thousands of innocent iraqi's.

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


And where was all the rightious indignation while the Democratic hero Mr Clinton was bombing "aspirin factories", "babyfood plants" and even a real honest to god "Chinese Embasy" with real Chinese inside, and all the deaths of innocent Serb children killed by the bombings, oh we were too worried on the vast right wing conspiricy while Mr Clinton was getting ......skys.....

It was right here... (Not as much as the current one, but that was because I was around 11 at the time.)

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


At least be consistant folks......protest all wars, acts of aggression, attrocities, not the ones the DNC decides may get them back into power again.

We do, all the ones that make no sense.

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


And maybe, just maybe if these protestors actually did some true investigating instead of hoping on the popular bandwagon, many of these DNC talking points may be questioned, but by their agenda, they prefere not to for the true point of the exercise is as usual an attack on President Bush, and his administration....no true Democratic ideas to spout other than Bush is wrong.

Yeah, some just jump on the bandwagon, but the real instigators and the ones who keep going are only supporting THEIR Ideals, not the DNC. The democratic party is dead, its a slightly less conservative Republican party.

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


Not revisionist history, just history in its cycle of repeating itself again....65 years later....Radical Islam and its individual and or nation state supporters are no threat to the west..........

What about radical American nationalism and movement away from a free society? What about our imperialist expansion?






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Dont beleive anything Micheale More says... god.. hes such a snake.
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Who are you going to believe? Faux news?

Anyway, many people do not get the point of Bowling for Columbine, its about how America lives in a culture of fear, which breeds the violence. But lets not get into that in this thread.
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Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Wonderfull little debate, problem is I have heard it all before, 35 or so years ago......

Do we feel any better or safer, for most probably not for many here, or our "brave" protesters never saw first hand how in thier mind glorious "Peoples Liberation Armies" or "National Liberation Fronts" or whatever the tyrant of the day cares to claim his force is called treats his own peoples who may thru a moment of freedom not agree with the resident tyrants minions. Many of you have no idea what a true attrocity is, never smelled death a klick away as you approach a ville, never seen a victim of a mass rape, or a disembowled village elder, or a dismembered child, in you mind a true attrocity is only a stack of naked Iraqis where the intent of the exercise is to remove the only thing we could thier dignaty, and if you do not understand the methodology that in itself shows the ignorance and blindness of the pacifist. And by the way never saw a news man or camaraman takin any pictures of any of these Vietnamese villes, or Honduran villes, because even then it did not meet the agendas of the time.
So even though your logic is horrible, and your history erroneous, your life experiences make you correct?


As for the "babykiller" reference, you two smitty"s need to review your past postings...and I quote...."But our entire nation calls little dead children in Iraq "collateral damage." Are our little white American fetuses more precious than little brown Iraqi ones?" veiled referance but the point is American servicemen still intentionally kill "little dead children". And another true anti-war or anti-violence statement from our resident leftists,"Woot! Getting ready for the March 19 protests! I even have a few extra days off in case I get arrested. I hope I get to do a pre-emptive strike on those Protest Warrior fools if they show up." I think he was saying that the same "fundamentalist" Christians that got Bush elected for some reason don't shed a tear for the 100k Iraqis dead from misplaced bombs and mistaken intelligence. The reason bibles today put Jesus quotes in red is so Christians can ignore what he said easier.

And where was all the rightious indignation while the Democratic hero Mr Clinton was bombing "aspirin factories", "babyfood plants" and even a real honest to god "Chinese Embasy" with real Chinese inside, and all the deaths of innocent Serb children killed by the bombings, oh we were too worried on the vast right wing conspiricy while Mr Clinton was getting ......skys.....

At least be consistant folks......protest all wars, acts of aggression, attrocities, not the ones the DNC decides may get them back into power again. That is your problem in a nutshell, you have to be all for something or against it. Here's how it works: Vietnam, bad idea. WWII, good idea. Desert Storm good idea. Operation Iraqi [insert latest justification], bad idea. See how I pick and choose what to protest, and my brain didn't melt or anything!


And maybe, just maybe if these protestors actually did some true investigating instead of hoping on the popular bandwagon, many of these DNC talking points may be questioned, but by their agenda, they prefere not to for the true point of the exercise is as usual an attack on President Bush, and his administration....no true Democratic ideas to spout other than Bush is wrong. Dear God, how many times do I have to justify why I think this war is wrong? Why do you keep repeating the same Rush Limbaugh garbage over and over?

Ask the Danes, Belgians, Norwegians, French how they were told Herr Hitler was no threat and their will be "Peace in our Time", and until the end there were French protestors to a "criminal" war, right up until the French Surrender in May 1940.

Not revisionist history, just history in its cycle of repeating itself again....65 years later....Radical Islam and its individual and or nation state supporters are no threat to the west..........
Now we are about to repeat Vietnam, where a bunch of soldiers wind up dead, and we lose. I read history too.
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Badsmitty View Drop Down
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Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The gospel according to Micheal Moore, Americans are not violent, every socirty has those who for thier own personal gratifacation inflict pain on others.

If you want to point blame, how about violent video games that glorify killing......desensitize youth to what shooting someone actually does, no reset button....
Violent and graphic movies......and the list goes on...and of course it is your right to view this.....care to compare the youth violent crime rate pre video game era to today...may shock you

Video games made Bush invade Iraq?  Yeah, I see the logic.
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Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

As for the "babykiller" reference, you two smitty"s need to review your past postings...and I quote...."But our entire nation calls little dead children in Iraq "collateral damage." Are our little white American fetuses more precious than little brown Iraqi ones?" veiled referance but the point is American servicemen still intentionally kill "little dead children". And another true anti-war or anti-violence statement from our resident leftists,"Woot! Getting ready for the March 19 protests! I even have a few extra days off in case I get arrested. I hope I get to do a pre-emptive strike on those Protest Warrior fools if they show up."

1.  No veiled reference to calling anyone a babykiller.  Save that word twisting crap for the weak minded.  There are dead Iraqi civilians.  No use of the word babykiller from me.  Deal with your own conscience if you need to.

2.  If you assume I am a pacifist, you are wrong.  I was a soldier, too.  Just not legendary like yourself.      

3.  Lieutenant Dan off of Forrest Gump just keeps coming to mind when I read your posts....  

C38962



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There are simularities in our approaches to todays world issues. Many here spout thier talking points, Haliburton, no WMD's, civilian casuality rates, and those of us who spout ours, freeing a people, eliminating a despot, finding evidense of WMD's.....

The exception is one group has a very defined objective, the "overthrow" or impeachment or whatever of our President, the other supports the president.

The masters of word spinning on both sides (myself included) spin thier facts to suit thier cause. Again an exception I do not disect their posts to meet my needs, the ideas are based on each views, teachings, and opinions on past history.

The one side blames and defames "Faux News" for not reporting the "truth", the one network that dares to sway from the conformist views of the other major networks with thier evident bias, even as one of thier anchors stepped down because of a proven false "truth" that met the biased agrenda. And the reseached data that in the election process more than 65% of all reporting was very anti-bush by these major networks, who by thier own admission were pro Kerry. The idea is to report the news, in a balanced fashion, not to create it to meet an agenda, as seems to be the case with the major networks.

The "War Protest" of March 19th is a needed function in our society, and I support your right to protest, go at it, have fun, show us how "peacefull" you truely are. But as I said in the initial post, just remmember in the back of your minds, that somewhere out there in the world, another youth wishes he could do the same against his government, but knows his moment of freedom of speech will land him in prison, or a mass grave.
And it is people like myself, for whatever "misguided" reason we do it, once commited, try to spread the freedoms we have to those who before we stood in thier streets to protect that freedom, could only dream of it.

So in a fair and balanced way in you protest, make sure you also show the newly rebuilt schools, the newly rebuilt water systems, books, school supplies, toys, and all that some americans see as a good thing to do for these people, but alas, none of this will be included in the March 19 protest, only what meets the agenda of the protestors, a true Anti-Bush rally plain and simple.   
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