Thank you Sen. Kerry.

Ken Majors wrote: I cannot possibly begin to understand the advanced cognitive abilities of such reasoning, but,I am just a dumb enlisted guy with no other options in life. So what would I know?

The more and more I read replies to WHALE's posts, the more I agree with the wrong conclusion you people are coming to.

It's simply amazing how stupid some of you are being about this.

Well if you think about it their is some uderlying truth to what he said if your not in college you will not get a decent job now adays in america we have hardly any old fashion middle class factory jobs anymore so whats left for the high school grad well theirs flipping burgers for minium wage or the military not saying that military personal are dumb but they just cant get a job in america thats worth it 

All I know is John Kerry is now hated by most people in the US. And I wouldn't say that the armed services are a last ditch for dump people, I'm not sure what would be a last ditch but I know if I was uneducated I still wouldn't go into the armed services.

Like a moth to a flame...

Maybe it's time we look at the original quote again:

John Kerry wrote: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

I don't see a lot of room for interpretation here.  "Make an effort to be smart?"  Wasn't aware that it was an effort based trait...

So what am I missing here?  Regardless of the "intended" joke or meaning, seems to me that Kerry said exactly what he meant to say.  In fact, he held a press conference shortly after to "defend" his commentary, challenging that Bush should be the one to apologize.

Of my 10 closest friends, 7 of them served in the military.  I did not, I was in college for the first Gulf War while four of them were dumping sand out of of their underwear and hoping that Iraqi artillery shells didn't land on their heads during the night.  One was busy getting no sleep between SCUD missile attacks in Riyhad.  One was getting his ass shot at in Panama while I was in 7th grade.  These guys made the most of their educations, they studied hard, they did their homework, and "made an effort to be smart", whatever the hell that means.   Circumstances found each of them in the military for different reasons, none of which fit the criteria of the above quote. 

Of the 7 I know, 5 of them now have educations from institutions of higher learning.  The two that do not are family men with good jobs, wives, kids, mortgage, the whole American dream.  Far from those who " didn't make the most of their educations, those who didn't study hard, those who didn't do their homework, or "make an effort to be smart".  Does the military employ these kinds of folks?  Sure.  So does every other company in the world.  In contrast to Senator Kerry's elitist remark, the military is not primarily made up of those who could do no better.

And that's what we're talking about here.  What Senator Kerry said.  And, as far is THIS guy is concerned, his remarks were pretty crystal clear.  And when TKD blanketly says "I agree with what he said" he was agreeing with what many of us took to be a condescending, elitist, uniformed, ugly remark about our men and women in uniform.  Regardless of what TKD THOUGHT he was agreeing with, or INTENDED to agree with, from my standpoint, he came off as elitist as John Kerry.

And Clark, your insistence that anyone hearing an insult in Kerry's remark is somehow mentally deficient, is just baffling.  Apparently it was bad enough to get the Democratic handlers to get Kerry to apologize...

Gatyr wrote: It's simply amazing how stupid some of you are being about this.

Agreed.  Do you have any real thoughts to add to this, or are you just going to coattail on the REAL debaters in this thread?

Flim, those people you mentioned, good for them.

They are not the ones Kerry is talking about. Feel good story, but not much to do with the quote at hand.

Once again, he was not saying all people in the military are dumb. He just did not do it. To think that he did takes some hardcore blinders.

.Ryan wrote: I find that many current/ex-military folks seem to think that because you haven't done what they have done or seen what they have seen that you don't have a right to an opinion on military matters. Displaying such an opinion is perceived as arrogance.....

That's definitely true, but for the most part, unless you're familiar with the life, you really can't say too many things.  But there are certain matters that a civilian can have an opinion to.

Example- my journalism teacher talked about how the journalists in iraq were having just as much to worry about and were feeling the same things as solderis.  I flipped out, there's no way you can compare a journalist to a soldier, there just isn't.  Prime example being that the enemy isn't specifically targeting journalists embedded in a unit. If you'd like to argue that they're just as big a target, then give them the same gear as our soldiers.

RicWhic414 wrote: sorry TKD i was just typing fast but good job looking passed what I said and just going to the grammar because I forgot this is a English class

 

Past*

Tae Kwon Do wrote: Feel good story, but not much to do with the quote at hand. Once again, he was not saying all people in the military are dumb. He just did not do it. To think that he did takes some hardcore blinders.

I'm sorry, I don't follow.  Let me quote it again, in case you missed it the first time:

John Kerry wrote: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

That's an either or quote there.  Please show me where the third option is in there...

And don't play me this crap about what he meant, or intended.  There's plenty of debate on this forum about other misrepresented, misinterpreted, taken out of context and outright false quotes of political leaders on both sides.

His quote was elitist, condescending, and just plain ugly.  It's what I expect from most politicians, right or left.

good god your so smart

Anyways john kerry completely screwed the democratic party.
I can see the momentum changing hands, all he had to do was shut his mouth

RicWhic414 wrote: how is that wow you cant not say anything bad about the armed services in this country and not be hated... so wow

I just had a conversation with a friend of mine where this came up.

His theory - there are some things that you are just not allowed to be critical about, not even a little bit.  These include, but are not limited to:

 - 9/11 Firefighters

 - Rosa Parks

 - The US military

His reason for why this is?  He theorizes that there is just enough truth in those criticisms to make us cringe.  Society doesn't like to think that it is disproportionately sending its poor and uneducated off to die, so instead we make unassailable heroes out of them.  Kind of a defense mechanism.

Interesting theory, I think.