Alpha Black

Reb Cpl wrote: After all, if it has anything to do with the military, it HAS to be a recruiting and subversion scam right?

If something is designed/endorsed by the Army officially, and is marketed to a youth demographic, it is hard not to think it is for recruiting.

They didn't make America's Army because they thought it would be nice for kids to have a nifty video game.

Please note I am not on the same tract as USAF here. I am not in disagreement with the "direction" it will take paintball. Paintball is not seriouz bizness in my book, so I could care less if more people play outlaw ball. I play outlaw ball. I refuse to give swindling commercial fields a cent of my money. I also think the people who are so against paintball being associated with war games are pretty dumb. It is a game where people shoot stuff at other people, and when they get hit, they are out. The lines shouldn't need to be highlighted for you to see the game is one of combat simulation, no matter how hard you try to see it otherwise.

I also am not trying to stand on a soapbox. I don't think this gun is a ZOMG TRAVESTY.

I think it will probably be a solid entry level gun.

My issue is that it is a bit too connected with the Army for my tastes, and I think that the Army using product marketing is a bit sketchy.

impulse! wrote: usafpilot07 wrote: Susan Storm wrote: usafpilot07 wrote: Kill me. Kill me now. Tippmann announces a new gun that will likely lead to expansion of paintball into new markets, and strengthen the Tippmann brand in the process, and you are upset why? I don't like that the Army is directly involved in marketing a mil-sim gun as a promotion to put their "business" in young people's minds. I worked all last year trying to help put a positive image on paintball, and things like this only make it worse when a news station decides to do an expose on the game.  More than likely, it won't expand the market, only push more new players into non-profitable for local members of the paintball community renegade ball, with less safety. Not to mention the fact that it makes it even easier for a non-player to get his hands on a replica gun and use it for immature behavior like scaring people. Does the news ever care that the person wasn't even a player? No. Just that it was a paintball gun. Shame on the army for this tactic, and shame on Tippmann for stooping to this.

and EE, I don't think it's that we think it's going to turn kids into maniacs. It's more the fact that with the army branding any news coverage, good or bad, will probably mention a gun released in conjunction(though minimal I am sure) with the US army.

This is turn will make parents want their kids to play less, because it looks like we are out to do war games and train for the army. The other smaller side of the sport(Tournaments) works hard to stray from the killer mentality.

Right now the dude that owns the field I play for is having a hard time getting the town to allow him to expand his field from 5 man to 7 man size so we can practice right because it involves "guns".

Man Bites Dog wrote: Spec Ops isn't an actual military force.

Did anybody tell them?

impulse! wrote: Susan Storm wrote:  What would you call woodsball OTHER than a war game/simulation? Playing tag with paintballs?

Except that it has nothing in common with tag?

 

Evil Elvis wrote: jmac3 wrote: impulse! wrote: usafpilot07 wrote: Susan Storm wrote: usafpilot07 wrote: Kill me. Kill me now. Tippmann announces a new gun that will likely lead to expansion of paintball into new markets, and strengthen the Tippmann brand in the process, and you are upset why? I don't like that the Army is directly involved in marketing a mil-sim gun as a promotion to put their "business" in young people's minds. I worked all last year trying to help put a positive image on paintball, and things like this only make it worse when a news station decides to do an expose on the game.  More than likely, it won't expand the market, only push more new players into non-profitable for local members of the paintball community renegade ball, with less safety.Not to mention the fact that it makes it even easier for a non-player to get his hands on a replica gun and use it for immature behavior like scaring people. Does the news ever care that the person wasn't even a player? No. Just that it was a paintball gun.Shame on the army for this tactic, and shame on Tippmann for stooping to this. and EE, I don't think it's that we think it's going to turn kids into maniacs. It's more the fact that with the army branding any news coverage, good or bad, will probably mention a gun released in conjunction(though minimal I am sure) with the US army.This is turn will make parents want their kids to play less, because it looks like we are out to do war games and train for the army. The other smaller side of the sport(Tournaments) works hard to stray from the killer mentality.Right now the dude that owns the field I play for is having a hard time getting the town to allow him to expand his field from 5 man to 7 man size so we can practice right because it involves "guns". If that was the case then as Susan Storm stated there would be no Market for Green Army Men, Toy guns, Toy planes and Tanks. Parrents arent as much Drama Lamma as tourney types when it comes to these things. They know their kids can make educated decitions later on on life. Toys don't inflict pain on another persons. Impulse, if Paintball was done by touching some one with paintballs and popping them on them i'd agree. But since you have to Shoot to tag out your oponent then yeah is a sort of combat situation. If you look at in the sense with mil-sim markers,woods, and full bdu's yeah. But look at NPPL and PSP, I can't see in any way it represents combat. "He's hiding behind the dorito"  Instead of "ditch,foxhole" etc.

Woods brought us in to this great sport. But now we need to part  from it.

now i just have to convince the cadre to replace the rubber ducks with these...stx lanes may become un-pointless/rediculous...

Snake6 wrote: EE wrote: with the Values of the US Army. Such as Honor, Integrety. EE, you funny man, you.Thanks for making me laugh. I needed it.

My father retired from the US Army. My father is among the best Americans I know. An outstanding citizen. Thou while no Marine it doesnt take away from his character.

Evil Elvis wrote: Snake6 wrote: EE wrote: with the Values of the US Army. Such as Honor, Integrety. EE, you funny man, you.Thanks for making me laugh. I needed it. My father retired from the US Army. My father is among the best Americans I know. An outstanding citizen. Thou while no Marine it doesnt take away from his character.

and as for the X7- spec ops isn't a military organization. we tried telling them but they wouldn't listen.

regardless, i have no problem with mil-sim markers (i do actually, but it's irrelavent to this argument) but i do have a problem with the army trying to get in on it all. i actually agree with whale, its the same as america's army was. Generally i don't mind the army recruiting, but i hate when they lurk high schools and do little things like this

edit- susan- it's a game...its not a war simulator, and its not intended to gear kids up for war. do people use it for that? yes. should refs explain it to ten year old kids that its a war simulation? no


Edited by GI JOES SON - 17 January 2008 at 1:52pm

Snake6 wrote: Evil Elvis wrote: Snake6 wrote: EE wrote: with the Values of the US Army. Such as Honor, Integrety. EE, you funny man, you.Thanks for making me laugh. I needed it. My father retired from the US Army. My father is among the best Americans I know. An outstanding citizen. Thou while no Marine it doesnt take away from his character. I am talking about the current situation of the US Army. There is no honor or integrity in the current model of the US Army.  Its a shame that I cannot walk into the PX on the weekend without seeing at least one Army RECRUIT stealing something.Its obivous that if the army values exist anymore they are not being thought to soldiers in boot camp...

My own brother, a Specialist in the NYANG has made the same observations. They had a couple of guys from a barracks in NYC stealing flares.

He also witnessed a mutiny when he was in Germany. Several guys in his own unit refused to do any work because it was raining. The officer in charge did nothing because he was bucking for promotion, and didn't care to have it on record that his men dediced not to work one day.

Reb Cpl wrote: Snake6 wrote: Evil Elvis wrote: Snake6 wrote: EE wrote: with the Values of the US Army. Such as Honor, Integrety. EE, you funny man, you.Thanks for making me laugh. I needed it. My father retired from the US Army. My father is among the best Americans I know. An outstanding citizen. Thou while no Marine it doesnt take away from his character. I am talking about the current situation of the US Army. There is no honor or integrity in the cForum Codesurrent model of the US Army.  Its a shame that I cannot walk into the PX on the weekend without seeing at least one Army RECRUIT stealing something.Its obivous that if the army values exist anymore they are not being thought to soldiers in boot camp... My own brother, a Specialist in the NYANG has made the same observations. They had a couple of guys from a barracks in NYC stealing flares. He also witnessed a mutiny when he was in Germany. Several guys in his own unit refused to do any work because it was raining. The officer in charge did nothing because he was bucking for promotion, and didn't care to have it on record that his men dediced not to work one day.

throughout history cases of wine and other goods have "fallen off the truck". i'm not saying its right, but its also not that recent of a thing.

edit-thats a of an officer. i would've given them a swift kick in the ass.


Edited by GI JOES SON - 17 January 2008 at 3:01pm