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the perfect sniper |
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GodSpeed64
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Topic: the perfect sniperPosted: 22 January 2008 at 6:42pm |
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I enjoy shootin people at long range i got the ghillie suit and soon going to be getting a ghillie kit for my new marker whichever i choose, i want to know if the 98 custom is better for sniping or if the A-5 is... the flatline icreases range by 100ft atleast, but will a 16 inch sniper barrel do the same but better acuracy.. I'm not sure of what me and my friends play the team based with alot of army tactics and we get our ideas usually from video games that wev played example call of duty 4 modern warfare, woodsball is what we like best considering we cant get ahold of any abandoned buidings to play in or anything haha |
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greengoblin
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 6:59pm |
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I have an A5 with a 16 inch Hammerhead Barrel. It works pretty well. A few of the guys I play with have used the flatline, and they weren't really all that happy with them. I have a red dot scope setup set to 25 to 30 yards, and I do pretty well with it.
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greengoblin
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 7:10pm |
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After reading a few of the other posts on the forum you might want to stay away from the word sniper. It doesn't really matter what you do to your marker you aren't going to get the old "one shot one kill". I have my marker set up to shoot up to 25 to 30 yards max with any kind of accuracy, and that means if I hit my target anywhere near where I was aiming I am happy. |
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Rambino
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 7:14pm |
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Welcome to the forum. All barrels shoot the same distance, except for the Flatline and the Apex. The "sniper barrel" is just a longer stock barrel, and is not particularly good. Barrel length does not affect range. Some people here get their panties in a bunch whenever you say "sniper". |
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thejudge
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 7:25pm |
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For great accuracy I like the J&J personally and for distance the flatline is pretty good. If you have your heart set on it though I do reccomend the A5 over the 98 simply for convenience of use and I have heard it works better as well. Once you get the flatty (or apex for that matter) you do sacrifice a good amount of accuracy especially if there is wind. Also longer barrels will actually hurt you in the end (longer than 16") I prefer my 12 or 14 but will be able to switch it up to a 16 for sound cancellation once I get the tip. That being said a Kit is also nice to get to match up bore sizes. It helps in accuracy. I prefer the elite kit by J&J because it comes with 3 different lengths. I will soon have all 5 though just for S&G.
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GodSpeed64
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 7:25pm |
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allright well what i am looking for is range pretty much, being able to shoot at my target from a decent distance and being able to hit it without just peppering the air in its general direction, so iv heard that a 98 with the flatline will shoot farther than the a-5 with the flatline but when i think about it the two guns probably were set to a different velocity (fps) therefore one shot farther but i could be wrong, so got any more sugestions?
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High Voltage
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 7:42pm |
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The A-5's flatline is shorter than the 98's. I have both and still enjoy taking the 98c out in the backyard to waste paint.
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Snake6
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 8:03pm |
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Read this and learn. The History of Military Sniping, and how it relates to the Game of Paintball. Ok. So I got bored, and I am sick and tried of this stupid sniper debate. I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas, and didn’t know what else to get so I picked up several books on Military Snipers. Here are my findings. < -- Note: Due to a problem with my code, you have to Highlight my rifle comparison tables to see them. It’s a bother, but if someone knows how to fix it, PM me. -- > First lets go over the basics of what a sniper is, and what a sniper is not. “A sniper…is considered a specialist, whose prime function is to kill selected high value targets at long range using superior skill and armament. A sharpshooter, by contrast, is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises” From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert Keep this in your mind as you read the rest of the article. The American Revolution (1775-83) Sniping first came onto the battlefield during the American Revolution. Standard infantry of this period were equipped with “Brown Bess” smoothbore muskets. The Continental Congress approves 10 independent companies, armed with long rifles. The men of these companies were the first snipers. Comparison between the “Brown Bess” musket, and the Long Rifle. “A soldiers musket, if not exceedingly ill bored (as many are), will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards: it may even at 100, but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, provided that the antagonist aims at him; as to firing at a man at 200 yards, with a common, musket, you might as well fire at the moon.” –British Major Hanger, on the “Brown Bess” musket In contrast, the American Long Rifle (as carried by the Irregular
companies), was effective in ranges up to 300 yards, and headshots could be
achieved at 200. At these ranges American Snipers picked-off high ranking
British Officers. During the battle of
As you can see from the table, the Rifle outranged the common muskets of the time by over 200 yards. Also the muzzle velocity of the Rifle was much higher than that of the Brown Bess. American Civil War (1861-65) During the Civil War, the standard infantry rifles were the Confederate Snipers were selected in a manner which has been used to select snipers in most present wars. The best men from each infantry regiment entered into shooting competitions. They were required to hit man-sized boards at 500 yards. The best shooters were given the prized Kerr and Witworth rifles. They then went through extensive training in the use of these rifles. The snipers were warned never to get within 400 yards of the enemy, but to use their superior range, to keep the enemy at a safe distance.
World War I (1914-18) US Snipers during World War I used modified, and accurized versions of
the standard service rifle the World War II (1938-45) World War II snipers were selected in different manners during the war. I will concentrate on the Marine Corps Snipers trained at Green’s Farm because the documentation of this school and its snipers is the best. There, snipers were instructed in 5 week courses in marksmanship, camouflage, and field craft. They were trained to approach a target using stealth and to eliminate the target from long distances. These snipers were required to hit a moving target at 500 yards, and to hit a stationary target at 1000. They were equipped much the same way as snipers in WWI were. These snipers used accurized versions of the M1903 Springfield service rifle, the A1 or A3 variants equipped with 2 or 4 power scopes. Marine Infantry qualified at 500 yards.
Now through all these wars several things have remained in common among snipers, lets analyze these facts: A sniper acts independently from standard infantry, not as a part of a
unit but in a one or two man team. This is possible in paintball, most of the time in scenario games, I am alone behind enemy lines trying to accomplish a mission. But you do very little if any tactical good for your team waiting in one spot for an entire game, hoping a target of high-value (such as the opposing general) walks by. A sniper does not act at random, he selects targets of high value and
eliminates them. Targets of High Value in a military sense are:
Targets of High Value in a paintball scenario game:
The problem with selecting high value targets in a scenario paintball game is, there are very few. The vast majority of players play independently, not under any command and they do what they want. What officers and team captains there are do not look any different than any other players. The Sniper fires at targets from
beyond the range of return fire by the standard infantry weapons, or from
distances that were beyond the training of the normal infantryman. As you can see from the diagrams of the Sniper Rifles of the Period in comparison to the standard issue infantry weapons, the sniper rifle always has a great deal more range than infantry weapons, and the sniper has been trained to an accuracy standard that is beyond that of standard infantry training. This is where sniping in paintball fails. All paintball markers except those equipped with the Flatline or Apex systems fire the same distance, around 25 yards or 75 feet. The Flatline will reach ranges of up to 150 ft, but because the ball loses velocity at the same rate as a normal paintball, the chances of getting a break, or a single accurate shot at those ranges are close to zero. The sniper uses a single accurate shot to take his targets down. The ammunition expended to kill ratio of a sniper in It is possible to take targets down with a single shot in paintball. However it is near impossible to eliminate a target with a single shot from beyond the effective range of return fire by the enemy. Paintballs are imperfect by nature, therefore they do not fly consistently enough every shot to make it possible to get anywhere close to the 1.7 rounds per kill ratio that snipers enjoy. A sniper uses camouflage and
concealment to hide himself from his enemies to eliminate his targets. No qualms with this, it can be done. Most every scenario paintball player does it. Using camouflage doe not make you a sniper. Now as you can see there are several places where sniping fails in paintball. Now look at the definition of a Sharpshooter: “A sharpshooter… is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises” From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert Ok, this looks a little more feasible in the game of paintball than the sniper definition doesn’t it? For paintball purposes we can strike rifleman, because there are no rifles in paintball. “who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises” This sounds feasible. The definition of a sniper that Spec Ops puts forth is one of an “ambush player” that fires from concealment, using camouflage. The problem with the Spec Ops definition of a sniper is that it perfectly describes the definition of a sharpshooter in a military sense. Therefore the definition of a sharpshooter or Designated Marksman fits a lot better in paintball doesn’t it? A sharpshooter takes shots from concealment, shoots at targets as the opportunity arises, and uses a marker that has the same range as everyone else’s. He works with a squad with tactically sound techniques, and is employed in a nature in which he can function both as a full armed and operational squad member and a Designated Marksman. This is not a Sniper. This is a sharpshooter. As stated before simple ballistics prevent one from being a sniper in paintball. A sharpshooter or DM moves with the squad, engaging targets like a normal member of the squad until his precision shooting skills are called upon. A DM would have intimate knowledge of his marker (a good marker for this type of thing would be a high end electro, {because higher end guns are inherently more accurate than a lower end gun} and a good barrel kit, not a Flatline of Apex system as these are known for not being accurate at range), and range limitations, at which point he would be able take precision shots on his target at a longer range than most players would be able to accurately shoot. While he is doing the rest of the team would be laying down suppressing fire as to not allow the DM to be effectively engaged. The fact of the matter is if you think you are a sniper in paintball, you are wrong. The skillset of a sharpshooter or DM, fits paintball a lot closer that the skillset of a sniper. It is also a hell of a lot more effective than taking pot shots at people while camping behind a bush at 200ft and hoping you hit something. But for those of you who insist that you are still snipers, look at an analogy: You work for a living. Your job is to go to people’s houses and businesses, to pick up their trash and take it to the dump. You drive a Garbage Truck. What would you be called, a Garbage Man, or a Professional Truck Driver? You would be called a Garbage Man, would you not? As much as you would prefer to be called a Professional Truck Driver, everyone would call you a Garbage Man because it fits what you are doing better than the title Professional Truck Driver does. The skillset of
Sharpshooter, or a Designated Marksman is 100% more feasible in paintball than
sniping is. Stop fooling yourself. References: SNIPER- Adrian
Gilbert One Shot-One Kill-
Charles W. Sasser and Craig Roberts Marine Sniper-
Charles Henderson Authors Note: In my
haste of writing this, I may have gotten some minor facts mixed up, or in the
wrong place. Please contact me with the correct info if you have something to
add, or a correction. |
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GodSpeed64
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 10:33pm |
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K well i want to be able to make the 30-40 yard shots and also be able to engage in somewhat close woods fire fights, and im thinking that the apex barrel if it doesnt decrease the range of the gun by much would be a good choice, any opinions on the apex barrel? |
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Snake6
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 10:59pm |
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The Apex actually increases the range of your marker, but it has the cost of decreasing your accuracy at range. I would suggest a good straight barrel like a J&J Ceramic or Lapco Bigshot. Both are excellent barrels. I would also suggest a firepower upgrade such as a E-Grip or R/T.
30-40 yards is about maximum effective range of a paintball marker. In order to get accurate consistant shots at this range you will have to upgrade a lot more than just a barrel. |
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GodSpeed64
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 11:25pm |
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allright one last question, being able to curve the balls to shoot around trees and such, how good does that work with the appex, is it worth purchasing an appex for... i plan on being the person who sneaks around to say the side of the person or behind them while my other teamates keep them at bay and being able to shoot around trees so it makes it even harder for them to retaliate just seems like a really good aspect and could give the game just that little extra hell yeah for my team and stuff you know what im sayin? |
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Snake6
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 11:31pm |
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It works, kinda.
Honestly by the time you have dialed in, shot, and made adjustments the guy knows you are there so you might as well just run up and bunker him... If you are looking to work flanking maneuvers under cover of suppression fire your best bet is a fast gun, with an accurate barrel. |
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GodSpeed64
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 11:52pm |
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very true so appex definately isnt such a great idea, and the flatline barrel, whats your input on that? |
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GodSpeed64
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 11:55pm |
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and for a regular barrel, 14 or 16 inch?
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Snake6
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Posted: 22 January 2008 at 11:57pm |
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Its basically the same thing as the apex, it just doesn't ahve all the adjustments. Those barrels are designed more for long range suppression than for QCB. If you sit a little ways back and unload on people, I would go with a Apex or Flatline, otherwise stick with a straight barrel because it isn't worth the money if you aren't going to use the advantages they have.
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thejudge
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Posted: 23 January 2008 at 12:26am |
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really 14 or 16" isnt going to have a difference. It may make it have less noise depending on the barrel you get. the longer the barrel the more porting. Really that part is simply your preference
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SSOK
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Posted: 23 January 2008 at 11:56am |
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Right now I'm using a J&J Edge kit with an Apex tip on it(need an adapter to do this) Range and accuracy.
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Stormy Knight
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Posted: 25 January 2008 at 11:38pm |
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I've already mentioned this in another thread, but the BT Apex's flatline effect is inferior to the Flatline. You can't shoot on your belly or other 'close to the ground' scenarios because the Apex shots dip down before the paintball levels out into it's flatline trajectory. The Apex's ability to curve around trees or other obstacles doesn't work as advertised. I've tried it with various tip settings and velocities. I've even set up targets behind trees and rarely it them. Now, the drop shot by the Apex WORKS and it works beautifully! I have gotten many hits on people that were behind low brush or other physical barricades. They thought somebody either shot them from behind or above them. This is the only reason I use the Apex. If I do need to shoot for distance, I'll swap it out for my trusty Flatline. I can shoot from more positions that I never could with the Apex. |
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A-5
Armson DOT Sight Armson Raised Sightrail DOP Bullet Drop DOP RVA DOP X-Core DOP Vertical Adapter E-Grip(APE) Flatline Barrel HPA JCS Duel Trigger Lightening Bolt QEPH Vortex Mod |
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Mack
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Posted: 26 January 2008 at 11:10am |
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I have to agree with SK here. In addition, an experienced Flatline user can get some of the same curved effect of the APEX just by tipping the marker when shooting. |
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DeTrevni
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Posted: 26 January 2008 at 4:37pm |
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I remember at my first scenario, I ran out of air, and some kid I met was out of paint (and was out). He had a 98c with a Flatty on it, and said I could use it. Boy, that thing was nice. I'm not exaggerating when I tell the following story: I was on the field, and a unit of the opposing force were casually walking to their positions, thinking they were out of range. I opened up on them (didn't get any eliminations, sadly) but let's just say they quickly decided to up their paces a bit. Anyway, I was very impressed with the Flatline's performance. Never used an Apex though. |
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Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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