home defense question.

My gunsafe is full of loaded guns. Why? Why the hell not? They are perfectly safe inside the gunsafe. They aren't going to shoot themselves. And getting my 870 out the gunsafe and not having to worry about doing anything more than racking the slide is a good idea at KISS principle.

My self defence handgun is on my hip at all times. The only times it is not is night time, when it is in a quick access, battery back-up'd safe at the head of the bed.

Why is this? Because bad peope do bad things. Is it the only form of defence? No. I have bars on all the windows, I have security gates on all my doors. I have alarms, motion detectors, magnets on doors and tremble sensors on windows. I also have an armed response company on call.

I have made it as hard as I can for people to get into my house. But that does not mean I am going to stop there. If a person has bypassed all those, I sure as hell want something that'll give me an advantage once they are inside.

Very few people have contingency plans for once the badguys are in.

Idiotic suggestions like "moving" are not going to contribute to the discussion. Obviously there are reasons behind why people live where they do. If it was so easy that peopel could just up and move, don't you think they would? Besides generally people buy houses in nice places, and over time the crime rate rises. Now I have to leave my home because some criminal low lifes want to rob houses near me? That is the wrong way around.

Back on question. There are some pretty good suggestions here already. One that people have mentioned is overpenetration. This can be a problem with things like Shotguns, actually.

Something with a frangible round, like a .223 will break up when they encounter walls, even drywall. Shotgun rounds do not. 00 buckshot pellets have been proven to penetrate interior walls further and to carry their energy better through them than .223 does.

Shotguns are also heavy and unwieldy. They are decent close combat weapons, but they are poorly suited for shooting inside family homes. While you shouldn't ever be shooting near hostages, if you do ever need to shoot near a friendly shotguns have a disadvantage. The shot will still be very tight and compact at indoor ranges, but the wad is a different story. It is unpredictable. It can fly pretty much anywhere. I've seen them veer pretty drastically off course.

Shotguns are attractive because they are cheap, easy to use, and many people think they are point and click interfaces.

Most of these are actually wrong. While a stock 870 or such will work, if you kit the shotgun out "properly" it can easily run as much as an AR of some sorts. I wouldn't increase the mag tube too much on a shotgun, because you want it fairly short and fairly handy, but this limits you to 5 or 6 rounds. Sights, while many people say you don't use sights with shotguns or in CQB, this is 100% wrong. Sighted shooting is far superior to point shooting. At least a high visibility front sight, if not full rifle style sights are needed.

Keep the stock. Pistol grip shotguns are for movies and Noobs. Get an AR style collapsable one if you NEED it short. But it's better to get the correct length of pull sized stock, and learn to use it better. This costs money. Light mounts? it's hard to use a torch and a pump shotgun at the same time.

Shooting a shotgun, especially under stress isn't easy. Short stoking it means you can jam it. Not pumping it between shots means one-shot wonders. Inserting the ammo incorectly can jam up the whole system. There are a million and one things that can go wrong with a shotgun, and fixing them isn't easy. Many people suggest using a semi to bypass these. What's the advantage over a semi auto AR then?

People talk about the "stopping power" of a shotgun. This is one place where the shotgun does shine. It does hit hard. And there is a limited chance of over penetrating your TARGET, yes. But at indoor distances a .223 will do just as well, and you can carry 30 of them in a mag.


Personally, for house defence, if I could, I'd buy either a decent AR-15 style weapon chambered in .223 and load it with light weight ballistic tip ammo or the older 55 grain military round. Remember civilians are not bound by the Hauge treaty. Hollow points and rounds designed to maximise damage against soft tissue are your friend.

The AR is an easy to use system with few failings. It will be lighter, easier to move with, easier to shoot, and with a load just as deadly as 12 guage. It also allows things like lights, sights and lasers to be easily attached.

My second bet, and if you are on a budget, would be an M1 carbine. These things were custom designed for close quaters work.

The design is a little dated, but it is easy enough to update them. Their action is easy to understand, they are simple and reliable, and they work.

Load it up with jacketed soft points and you will have a damn fine home defence gun. You can have 15 round original mags, or M2 30 round mags.

This is a Chakote modified M1 with a pistol grip light weight synthetic stock and red dot sight.


You can easily get lasers and lights attached to it. light weight, easy to shoot, and it points easily. And up close hits like the hammer of Thor.

2000fps of 110grain hollow point love, and you are delivering almost a thousand footpounds. Over twice the energy from a .45ACP.

The other suggestions are ok. Anyone can shoot a .45ACP. This is a first time shooter, EVER, touching off a 210grain SWC from a shorty 1911.


True she's let the sights lift off target, but that's something she'll learn to controll.

Any handgun you can shoot comfortably, and well, should be your home defence gun. Personally I'd equipp it with a laser. Many people pooh pooh lasers as toys, but in low light situation (when most home invasions happen) they are easy to see, and fast to acquire. Companies like Crimson Trace make lasers that don't interfere with the function of the weapon. Grip the handle and they turn on.

All the 1911 suggestions are good, as are the Sig suggestions. One thing to think about is weapon mounted lights will sometimes get in the way of things like Crimson Traser Laser Grips. Soemthing to consider when "kitting out" your gun.

There are also a wide number of weapon retention devices around that allow both secure storage and quick access to weapons.

Quick access handgun safes
http://www.lockandloadsafe.com/ll2.htm
Long arm lock up.
http://www.santacruzgunlocks.com/

There is another one who's name escapes me at the moment that allows you to mount the weapon on a wall , loaded. The lock up part covers the action and the trigger. allowing you to quickly unlock it and access it.

Ao back to the original post. I'd suggest and AR. In .223 (M4 looka likes, AR-15's, Mini 14's, FNC's, Galil's, the like) or .30 carbine (M1.....), and then any decent handgun. Springfield, Colt, Ed Brown, Les Bauer.....

KBK

Edit, Bah, Photobucket acting up.

Edited by Kayback - 07 April 2008 at 5:34am

Man Bites Dog wrote: jmac3 wrote: Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having it for home safety? That is the catch-22, exactly why a gun is not all that great for "home defense." You either have to leave it out and loaded, making it easily accessible but also making you a very irresponsible gun owner.Or, you can keep it locked up like a responsible gun owner, but that makes it harder to get to if the situation does present itself.

Does being responsible with your guns make it less likely that you'll actually get to use them? Yes.

Does that mean I'm not going to have one for home defense? No.
Even if I didn't like to shoot for sport and hunting, I'd really hate to be in that 1/100 situation where I could have used a gun and didn't have one. Especially once/if I have a family later in life, I'd like to do everything in my power to protect them.

Personally, I have all my long-guns locked up in a safe that's bolted to the floor in a closet.
I have one handgun (unloaded if it's sitting around but with ammunition nearby), that stays out of the safe and either within sight (if there are no children/dumbasses around), or on my person.
When I sleep, it goes under my matress near my head and where I can reach it easily.

If that's irresponsible gun ownership, I'd like to hear how and why.

I am going to try and stay away from the argument about guns. Instead I will go right to my suggestions. All of which I have.

I will assume that you already have/will have dead bolts and locks on all your windows. A home security system is a good first step. However you should not rely on it. We had one and it failed, my mom paid he price for it.      
Second, if you don't already have one get a dog. Not only are they great pets but they will sense things/people around the house before you do. A barking dog can scare off would be intruders, and the typical door to door salesman:)
   Finally get a firearm that you can handle. A 357 is a good choice, but if your like me a 9mm or 40 cal is the better bet because I can shoot them better. Oh yes its also important to know your local laws, and TAKE TRAINING CLASSES.
    Someone on here said the cops are only a few minutes away.   That may very well be true, but it only takes a few seconds for you to lose your life. Besides the cops are not obligated to protect you, thats your job.         &n bsp; 

Kristofer wrote: he has no children so he is good there. and no children go there. as for it being loaded. as far as i know he has a magazine near by with rounds in it, but no rounds are in the gun itself. and trigger lock. i am pretty sure with the key also near by.

Ok, so I promote him from "competely reckless" to "irresponsible".  Specific categorization depends on how frequently he locks up the gun when he leaves the room.

 

I personally think a crossbow is a good alternative

jmac3 wrote: Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having it for home safety?

That is the catch-22, exactly why a gun is not all that great for "home defense."

You either have to leave it out and loaded, making it easily accessible but also making you a very irresponsible gun owner.

Or, you can keep it locked up like a responsible gun owner, but that makes it harder to get to if the situation does present itself.

Ceesman762 wrote: if you are worried about break in and home invasion, look at moving

Fixed

Bunkered wrote: Which is why you lock them in a gun-safe that's bolted to the floor.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having it for home safety?

Kristofer wrote: haha that what my cousin did for a while until he could afford a nice gun case to bolt to the floor. and now his wife doesnt know how many guns he has. he only keeps one pistol out of the case, thats in his night stand. other than that. everything is in his gun case, which holds like 18 weapons. and is full hahaha.

Translation:  Your cousin has unsafe gun ownership practices.

Word.

A baseball bat is all you need.

speaking of guns, i just got a call from my dad saying that my CCW permit came in last week!