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home defense question.

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¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ View Drop Down
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This title is just way too old

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2008 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by Rottergotterdam Rottergotterdam wrote:

Originally posted by notXXscared notXXscared wrote:

Originally posted by Rottergotterdam Rottergotterdam wrote:

I just have a question to ask regarding home defense...

If you, in your home, have the option of chosing a handgun or a shoulder-fired weapon, why would you chose a handgun?

A handgun fires a low-powered round with less accuracy than any rifle or shotgun (accuracy in this case will be defined as "hitting your target").

A handgun is easier to carry all day. It's short and light. But nobody I know would go into a fire fight with a handgun if they could brining a shotgun or rifle.

 

 


How accurate does it need to be if you were in a house? I have no doubt the pistol is accurate enough...

It's not like your picking him off, it would be room to room combat, maybe 20 feet at the most. Again, I have no doubt that you could do this on a static range or that the pistol will be adequite...

For that type of environment, a pistol is ideal. And yet SWAT and countless other military groups use sub-machineguns or carbines as a primary weapon for this same environment...not pistols for some reason.

It's easy to maneuver without a long barrel that would just get in the way; What do you mean get in the way? Does the barrel some how block your shot?

it's a waste, since that barrel provides tighter accuracy, which you DON"T need in such close quarters). If you have to shoot someone from behind cover, you may only get two inches of exposure...if they grab a family member, you may only get two inches...

A pistol isn't sparratic and shoots all over the place, you can still hit a person from such close range pretty easily. I never said that they did, I have shot a pistol before. And I don't doubt you can hit someone, but when you are shooting at a moving target while moving under stress...it's a bit harder. And statistically, you won't put more than two shots into someone (and they statistically will live) when using a pistol.

Accuracy is always good, but the difference at 20 feet is going to be negligible. So my 0.2" groups with my AR from 20 feet verses 3.0" from 20 feet using a 1911 is somehow negligible?

And you want a low powered round..No...A bullet has to be able to penetrate at least eight inches. You may only get a shot at a weird angle. If you hit their arm, you want it to get into their organs still, not stop on the bone...

high powered rounds go through people and can hurt innocents, low powered shmoosh 70% of the time, a hollow point round will expand in a pistol. And you worry about over-penetration but what about the bullets that miss your target? Are they less lethal to your loved ones than over-penetrating shots?

and do a lot more damage at close range: knock down power baby. Knock down power is a myth. By the laws of physics, every force has an equal and opposite reaction (recoil). Even without springs nad recoil reducing systems, the power of a rifle will not knock you down (okay, some may, but the basic 5.56mm and most 7.62mm won't). Actually, the only reason people drop is because they know they have been shot, and there are plenty of recorded incidencts where a person has been shot but has not felt the shot and continues without being knocked down. A pistol (or anything) will not, by force, knock someone down. You are aiming for the head or the heart, or you are trying to induce massive blood loss. A pistol, at 9mm vs. 5.56mm has a bigger chance to do this, yes, but...well, read below...

A pistol will not do more damage at close range. At 2700fps (up to around 70 yards on an M16 with a 20" barrel) the bullet, even FMJ, will fragment...these fragments can travel up to one yard (in the case of a pig being shot in the hind leg but the fragment that killed the pig was found in the heart). Even from beyond 70 yards, 5.56mm have a tendancy to yaw and tumble.


All of this can be found with some search on Google by the way.



SWAT goes up against much more dangerous threats than your average house burglar, and the sizes of their environments vary. Thus, the reason for the use of submachine guns and carbines. If you're going to be maneuvering through your house, unless you live in a mansion with wide hallways and large doorways, a pistol would be much easier to use than a rifle.

Originally posted by wrote:

And you worry about over-penetration but what about the bullets that miss your target? Are they less lethal to your loved ones than over-penetrating shots?
Yes. If a loved one if hiding behind cover, and one of your shots misses, that over-penetrating bullet may go through the material your loved one is hiding behind and hurt/kill him or her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rottergotterdam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2008 at 11:10pm

1. No...simply...no. That's so far from correct that...it's simply laughable. Most of the people I fought in Iraq...no, these are some guys with AK-47s...so...yeah, wow...that--I can't even begin to try and dissect how wrong that is.

2. So then we're 1-1, one evil for one evil...it's an even trade...but the chances of your overpenetrating bullet killing a loved one is...low because, as I said, unless your bullet hits the head or heart, they probably won't die. The over-penetrating bullet will probably yaw and tumble...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThatGuitarGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2008 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by Rottergotterdam Rottergotterdam wrote:

1. No...simply...no. That's so far from correct that...it's simply laughable. Most of the people I fought in Iraq...no, these are some guys with AK-47s...so...yeah, wow...that--I can't even begin to try and dissect how wrong that is.

2. So then we're 1-1, one evil for one evil...it's an even trade...but the chances of your overpenetrating bullet killing a loved one is...low because, as I said, unless your bullet hits the head or heart, they probably won't die. The over-penetrating bullet will probably yaw and tumble...



1? What? That whole answer didn't even make sense.  Give us facts if you're going to argue.
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This title is just way too old

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2008 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by ThatGuitarGuy ThatGuitarGuy wrote:

Originally posted by Rottergotterdam Rottergotterdam wrote:

1. No...simply...no. That's so far from correct that...it's simply laughable. Most of the people I fought in Iraq...no, these are some guys with AK-47s...so...yeah, wow...that--I can't even begin to try and dissect how wrong that is.

2. So then we're 1-1, one evil for one evil...it's an even trade...but the chances of your overpenetrating bullet killing a loved one is...low because, as I said, unless your bullet hits the head or heart, they probably won't die. The over-penetrating bullet will probably yaw and tumble...



1? What? That whole answer didn't even make sense.  Give us facts if you're going to argue.


QFT.

And #2, so why even bother with deep penetrating rounds? So you'd be fine with a loved one being shot, as long as they don't die? The pain and suffering they would endure isn't significant? And anyways, "stuff" happens. Why risk it?

And again, you're inside your house. Theres no need for deep penetrating rounds, especially when you consider how thin drywall is.


Edited by ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ - 10 April 2008 at 11:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 12:39am
Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:

I agree that there are legitimate concerns about the effectiveness of non-lethal weapons, including bean bags.


My point here was simply that given an option (and assuming all else is equal) I would just as well not kill anybody - including somebody breaking into my house.  I'm not looking for legal excuses to go a-killin'.



Maybe YOU aren't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 12:56am
Originally posted by ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ wrote:



Originally posted by ThatGuitarGuy ThatGuitarGuy wrote:


Originally posted by Rottergotterdam Rottergotterdam wrote:

<p align="center">1. No...simply...no. That's so far from correct that...it's simply laughable. Most of the people I fought in Iraq...no, these are some guys with AK-47s...so...yeah, wow...that--I can't even begin to try and dissect how wrong that is.


<p align="center">2. So then we're 1-1, one evil for one evil...it's an even trade...but the chances of your overpenetrating bullet killing a loved one is...low because, as I said, unless your bullet hits the head or heart, they probably won't die. The over-penetrating bullet will probably yaw and tumble...

1? What? That whole answer didn't even make sense.  Give us facts if you're going to argue.
QFT.And #2, so why even bother with deep penetrating rounds? So you'd be fine with a loved one being shot, as long as they don't die? The pain and suffering they would endure isn't significant? And anyways, "stuff" happens. Why risk it?And again, you're inside your house. Theres no need for deep penetrating rounds, especially when you consider how thin drywall is.


I'm pretty sure he's pointing out that most people won't hit a target under duress with a pistol as effectively as with a long-gun. And those rounds you missed with the pistol are far more deadly than the ones that hit the guy and went through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 8:46am
Fine, I'll just make sure my wife and I both take the Last Stand perk in case we're taken down.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rottergotterdam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 11:31am
Originally posted by ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ wrote:



QFT.

And #2, so why even bother with deep penetrating rounds? So you'd be fine with a loved one being shot, as long as they don't die? The pain and suffering they would endure isn't significant? And anyways, "stuff" happens. Why risk it? Because...uh, with a handgun, the only way to kill someone is to reach vital, blood-bearing organs and cause rapid blood loss (unless you hit them in the head, which you probably will not do with a handgun under those conditions)

And again, you're inside your house. Theres no need for deep penetrating rounds, especially when you consider how thin drywall is. You have no clue about what you are talking about, do you? Any bullet will penetrate drywall, from a soft-nose .22 to a 12 gauge (birdshot may not, but there are reported incidencts of birdshot not killing humans from point blank in the chest). In fact, a .22 will pierce 5-6 walls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rottergotterdam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 11:32am

Originally posted by ThatGuitarGuy ThatGuitarGuy wrote:



1? What? That whole answer didn't even make sense.  Give us facts if you're going to argue.

Who are you again?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThatGuitarGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 11:42am
I would be the one who apparently has a better grasp on the English language than you do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evil Elvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 11:48am
Best Home Defence is a Good Home Offense. Why A Mine Field and Automated Turrets are the way to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by reifidom reifidom wrote:

Fine, I'll just make sure my wife and I both take the Last Stand perk in case we're taken down.




or martydom perk. i like using that one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by reifidom reifidom wrote:

Fine, I'll just make sure my wife and I both take the Last Stand perk in case we're taken down.




or martydom perk. i like using that one


I won't use that on principle. I hate it! My friend is great at dropping grenades before he dies. It's an art. But to have it done automatically? Bah! (This perk kills me a lot and I'm bitter. lol)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by reifidom reifidom wrote:

Fine, I'll just make sure my wife and I both take the Last Stand perk in case we're taken down.




or martydom perk. i like using that one


ah, martyrnub
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 12:59pm

Originally posted by Evil Elvis Evil Elvis wrote:

Best Home Defence is a Good Home Offense. Why A Mine Field and Automated Turrets are the way to go.

The good old Mk19. My favorite.



Edited by Snake6. - 11 April 2008 at 1:00pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:


Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by reifidom reifidom wrote:

Fine, I'll just make sure my wife and I both take the Last Stand perk in case we're taken down.




or martydom perk. i like using that one
ah, martyrnub


Way too common in free-for-all games. And it seems that sometimes, even when I sprint away the moment they drop, the blast kills me, even with no previous damage. In free-for-all I prefer to take a silenced smg of some kind, along with Bandolier, UAV Jammer, and Extreme Conditioning. I stay entirely off the map at all times, and I can run down people from behind.
In standard games I love the G3, red-dot sight.

Edited by reifidom - 11 April 2008 at 1:15pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaiNTbALLfReNzY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:


Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by reifidom reifidom wrote:

Fine, I'll just make sure my wife and I both take the Last Stand perk in case we're taken down.




or martydom perk. i like using that one
ah, martyrnub


Hopefully you get robbed by a gang of burglars. Kill 6 and call in a helicopter. A Super Cobra would be a great home defense weapon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 1:20pm
It seems that most of the time when I get a five-streak and go to call in the airstrike that I get gunned down before I can finish, either because I had to wait until another airstrike cleared and I am found and shot, or I'm looking at the map for a few moments too long. When I make a seven-streak it's so much easier to call in the chopper.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaiNTbALLfReNzY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by reifidom reifidom wrote:

It seems that most of the time when I get a five-streak and go to call in the airstrike that I get gunned down before I can finish, either because I had to wait until another airstrike cleared and I am found and shot, or I'm looking at the map for a few moments too long. When I make a seven-streak it's so much easier to call in the chopper.


Is it 7 streak for the chopper? Could have sworn it was 6. It's been awhile since I've played.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 1:27pm
Yep, seven. At least on PS3. Haven't played on 360.

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