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So i got some new toys to mess with

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Ace_Of_Spades View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 June 2008 at 6:27pm

 

Femme Fatale DM5

Autococker body

they shall become one!

 

I plan on sending them both to destructive customs and get them milled up and down to fit one another...i can't wait!



Edited by Ace_Of_Spades - 12 June 2008 at 6:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ctchofday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 6:31pm
MQ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 6:33pm

ok they good now



Edited by Ace_Of_Spades - 12 June 2008 at 6:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sinisterNorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 7:49pm
Looks like it has a lot of potential.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 9:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by ctchofday ctchofday wrote:

MQ?
<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 10:44pm

oh yes i cant wait, seriously i was already drooling about the frame, i got it off ebay for $50 and its pratically brand new, everything works flawlessly...and then my friend mentioned getting the body for my autococker i was working on to get milled to fit the DM and i slapped myself for not thinking about it b4 cuz its gunna look sick, since the body of the cocker is too blocky im gunna hvae him do some cosmetics on it to flow along with the frame so it wont look odd, one of a kind tho, and thats the kicker, after i get the finish product im gunna send it off to odd paintball to get some laser engraving ( i figured that would be better than getting a tattoo on myself) 

 

on a side note, i thought it was strange that the cocker had angel threading when i got it...is that normal or a little strange? lol DM frame, cocker body, and angel barrel thread, i might as well call this gun Frankenstein.



Edited by Ace_Of_Spades - 12 June 2008 at 10:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 10:53pm
that will look awsome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 10:57pm
prolly will still be a month or so till i get it done, gotta get the money and still asking questions about what he can and cant do for so much money, but this will be my baby
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lester98c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 11:08pm
looks cool should be awsome when done. We once tried mounting a dm frame on a mag. Just about had the thing done but never finished it before my friend sold the gun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 11:12pm

outta curiosity, im not that much of a vet in the DM field or autocockers for that matter, but with this setup, what type of ASA should i get? and should i invest in some eyes or are detents fine by themselves?



Edited by Ace_Of_Spades - 13 June 2008 at 12:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2008 at 12:04am

Wow. You have a long and bumpy path to travel...

First off, the frame is going to have to be moved backwards a little bit. Where it sits now is in the way of the vertical ASA. As such, the frame's "tail piece" will be hanging out the back, so you may want to have that milled off. Also, new holes will have to be drilled in the frame, as I'm almost certain that the frame mounting holes on a DM and a 'cocker are completely different.

Secondly, do you know how a 'cocker works? Your frame won't be able to work unless you have a flapper 'noid fitted into the frame, or an MQ valve installed.

Third, detents and eyes do completely different things. Detents hold the balls in place, and in the circumstances of closed bolt markers (i.e. the 'cocker) prevent doule feeds. Eyes are sensors on the body of a paintball gun that detect if a paintball is in the breech or not. If a paintball is not detected, the bolt will not close, and this prevents chops. Your marker will need both detents and eyes.

Fourth, you're not the first person to do this. Just thougt I should mention that.

Remember, just because it looks like it will line up doesn't mean it will all work together.

That said, good luck!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2008 at 12:23am
Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

Wow. You have a long and bumpy path to travel...

figured as much

Quote First off, the frame is going to have to be moved backwards a little bit. Where it sits now is in the way of the vertical ASA. As such, the frame's "tail piece" will be hanging out the back, so you may want to have that milled off.

the guy doing the milling has informed me of this

Quote as I'm almost certain that the frame mounting holes on a DM and a 'cocker are completely different.

they are

Quote Secondly, do you know how a 'cocker works?

meh some of it

Quote Your frame won't be able to work unless you have a flapper 'noid fitted into the frame, or an MQ valve installed.

do tell more of this, like how to put it in and where to get it would be nice

Quote Third, detents and eyes do completely different things. Detents hold the balls in place, and in the circumstances of closed bolt markers (i.e. the 'cocker) prevent doule feeds. Eyes are sensors on the body of a paintball gun that detect if a paintball is in the breech or not. If a paintball is not detected, the bolt will not close, and this prevents chops. Your marker will need both detents and eyes.

duely noted, are there certain eyes that are better than others or does that even matter?

Quote Fourth, you're not the first person to do this. Just thougt I should mention that.

but still, seeing the faces of the people who are staring at the gun trying to figure out what the hell it is will be priceless



Edited by Ace_Of_Spades - 13 June 2008 at 12:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2008 at 12:35am

I'll elaborate on the frame issue. The autococker in it's most basic electronic form is a sear tripper, similar to a Spyder, if we're chopping it down to basics. Within the frame of the E-Blade (we'll use that as en example, as it's the most popular frame) there is a board and a solenoid. It's a mechanical solenoid we refer as a "flapper" or "pancake" 'noid. What these do is when an electric current flows through it, a rod is drawn through the core of the 'noid and presses against something. In this case, it's a sear that releases a hammer. When the current is gone, a spring pushes the 'noid back into its resting position, ready to be activated again. On a simple electro 'cocker, a 2nd solenoid, a pneumatic 'noid that routs air to the ram in place of the 3-way, is mounted on the front of the marker. This actuates the ram which recocks the marker.

The MQ valve eliminates the need for the flapper 'noid. Basically, it incorporates the flapper 'noid directly into the valve. The same signal that sends current from the board to the 'noid on the basic electro 'cocker is sent to the MQ valve on an MQ'd 'cocker. The electronic valve actuates (I honestly don't know exactly how, as I've never personally used an MQ) and the gun fires.

With an MQ valve, the need for the flapper 'noid is gone, so you can basically use any frame you want, as long as the MQ is wired into the board.

Oh, this is also important: The Matrix board WILL NOT WORK. You will need to find a board that controles dual solenoids on a closed bolt marker. This is basically only an E-Blade board, as the Race frame will be difficult to fit. The trick with installing an E-Blade board is you are going to have to make it so the trigger trips the optic E-Blade switch.

This is going to cost you a LOT of money. The MQ2 valve (the current version of the MQ) alone is $120. If you want to follow through, you can get an MQ2 from Moody Paintball.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2008 at 12:56am
Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

I'll elaborate on the frame issue. The autococker in it's most basic electronic form is a sear tripper, similar to a Spyder, if we're chopping it down to basics. Within the frame of the E-Blade (we'll use that as en example, as it's the most popular frame) there is a board and a solenoid. It's a mechanical solenoid we refer as a "flapper" or "pancake" 'noid. What these do is when an electric current flows through it, a rod is drawn through the core of the 'noid and presses against something. In this case, it's a sear that releases a hammer. When the current is gone, a spring pushes the 'noid back into its resting position, ready to be activated again. On a simple electro 'cocker, a 2nd solenoid, a pneumatic 'noid that routs air to the ram in place of the 3-way, is mounted on the front of the marker. This actuates the ram which recocks the marker.

The MQ valve eliminates the need for the flapper 'noid. Basically, it incorporates the flapper 'noid directly into the valve. The same signal that sends current from the board to the 'noid on the basic electro 'cocker is sent to the MQ valve on an MQ'd 'cocker. The electronic valve actuates (I honestly don't know exactly how, as I've never personally used an MQ) and the gun fires.

With an MQ valve, the need for the flapper 'noid is gone, so you can basically use any frame you want, as long as the MQ is wired into the board.

ok that de-fogs alot

Quote Oh, this is also important: The Matrix board WILL NOT WORK. You will need to find a board that controles dual solenoids on a closed bolt marker. This is basically only an E-Blade board, as the Race frame will be difficult to fit.

so will the DM5 frame fit this board stock or will it need some extra room?

 

Quote The trick with installing an E-Blade board is you are going to have to make it so the trigger trips the optic E-Blade switch.

what level of difficulty are we talking getting a DM5 trig to do what an eblade trig does?

Quote

This is going to cost you a LOT of money. The MQ2 valve (the current version of the MQ) alone is $120. If you want to follow through, you can get an MQ2 from Moody Paintball.

this is a project gun that will take a WHILE to get fully in working order and will be asking advice down my rocky road to sweet sexy awsomeness much money, much time, but most of all, much love will be going into this project.

i got a 98 as my primary till this gets up and running, with my time restraints i may be looking at a nice 1 or 2 years worth of work

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2008 at 1:05am

Well, the E-Blade board will probably fit within the frame, but things won't line up. The board will need to be mounted some how, as it can't be left to flop around.

If you look at a picture of an E-Blade, you can see an extension coming from behind the trigger into the frame. The switch on the E-Blade board is optical, which means the board has an infrared beam that is broken to activate the marker's firing sequence. The extension on the back of the E-Blade's trigger breaks this beam, activating the marker.

Upon further reflection, modifying a Race frame board to fit will probably be simpler. The board is smaller and uses a standard dome micro-switch (or a leaf-spring switch, but a standard micro-switch can be easily fitted), thus making it easier to mount the board and adapt the DM frame's trigger to use. The only problem with Race is the company is effectively defunct, and they take a rather hard to come by 4.8v battery.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2008 at 1:11am

ok so in your opinion overall which one would be easier to do?

 

ive only seen the outside of an e-blade, i and dont hvae quite the time to thoroughly examine one on the puter yet and by defunct u mean went under i take it, so im looking for something like an e-bolt then? or are race baords easier to come by?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2008 at 1:22am

The E-Bolt would be a good analogy for it. Oh, another problem with the Race, to modify its settings, you need to hook it up to your computer via a data cable. If you want, I'm sure you could have the guy doing your milling drill a hole in the back of the frame to mount the data cable, but it could be held loosely in the frame. It would just be a minor inconvenience as you'd need to undo the grip every time you wanted to charge it or change its settings.

Here, I'll give a rundown of each board in regards to this project.

E-Blade baord

Advantages:
- Easy to get
- Company of manufacture still in operation (Planet Eclipse)
- 9v battery powered
Disadvantages:
- Optic switch difficult to get trigger to work with
- Needs to be mounted to frame in certain position
- Kind of large
- Window in back of frame and holes for the buttons will be needed to change and see the settings

Race Frame board

Advantages:
- Smaller than E-Blade board
- Uses standard micro-switch
- can be loose in frame (no frame modification required for board [just a way to mount the microswitch behind the trigger])
Disadvantages:
- Company is gone
- Hard to find
- Change settings through computer
- Access to cable link on board difficult
- 4.8v battery

Still, I'd say the Race board will be easier to use in the long run. However, would it be easiest and WAAAAAAAY cheaper to just get an E-Blade and slap it on there? Well, yeah. It all depends on what you want to do.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2008 at 1:30am

i loled at slapping, i would never slap my baby DeTrevini,

 

the way i see it is that i could essentially get the DM frame milled in the correct measurements of an eblade frame, get the board and what not and basicaly just have a DM cosmetically while being full blood eblade on the inside, the holes for the bottons and screen shouldnt be a problem i dont think, the extra length on the DM (of what doesnt get milled off) could possibly hold the window and buttons if anything (and would look pretty cool) id need to see how big the bottons and screen are before i get too ahead of myself, but from what it sounds like, the e-blade is the way to go



Edited by Ace_Of_Spades - 13 June 2008 at 1:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2008 at 1:42am
Take a look at some pictures though. I still feel the Race would be the easiest to modify. Good luck.
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