Medical Marijuana |
Post Reply | Page <12345 20> |
Author | |||||
Rambino
Platinum Member I am even less fun in person Joined: 15 August 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16593 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Choop (and others) - I have no intention of spending 90 minutes watching a movie about pot. The effort required would far exceed my care quota for this subject matter.
But I will go out on a limb and guess at the contents of the movie (feel free to correct/complete):
- Hemp is a totally awesome plant with many uses
- MJ was banned for economic reasons relating to hemp, not for any drug concerns
- MJ/THC is an awesome drug
- Synthetic THC just doesn't work as well
- The pharmaceutical companies are conspiring to keep MJ illegal
Pretty close? If so, then I have heard it all before, and am not impressed.
I do not dispute that there is use for the substance. To the contrary, there appears to be a good amount of evidence supporting beneficial use.
And this is the key. This is exactly why the FDA will NEVER approve MJ in its natural form. It is far too unpredictable. Each of those individual compounds needs to be isolated and studied separately. If one or more drugs can be developed that combine some or all the useful elements of MJ (Like Marinol), then those drugs could be approved by the FDA. But an application based on "there are a bunch of things and stuff in the smoke" - not even close. The FDA requires rigorous testing of all active ingredients.
Medical MJ proponents happily point to THC studies to show the usefulness of MJ, but then turn around and say that THC alone isn't enough - they now also need those "other 60-70 cannabinoids." Very convenient, and completely unscientific.
FDA approval of marijuana on this basis would be a massive exception to the entire history of the exception. Medical MJ proponents claim that they are being held back by whatever evil forces and conspiracies, when the truth is that they simply haven't come anywhere near the level of study required for ALL drugs before getting FDA approval. The work was done on THC - and approval was granted. One down, 60-70 to go.
This is not an argument for medical marijuana - it is an argument AGAINST medical marijuana.
And "therapeutic agents" are entirely different from medicine. Physicians might also suggest taking more Vitamin C, getting more exercise and cutting the red meat. If we are to think of marijuana as MEDICINE (as opposed to a "nutritional supplement," for instance, then physicians will (and should) apply their full level scrutiny, and marijuana will come up short every time. It has known negative effects, and the full effects simply have not been studied.
Different question. General legalization is different from suggesting that physicians prescribe something for medical purposes. Even if marijuana were available at 7-11, it would still be inappropriate for physicians to prescribe it.
Can we agree that it would generally be inappropriate for a physician to prescribe cigarettes for stress?
Not moot at all. Irrelevant for general legalization, yes, but very much the center of the issue when specifically discussing medical marijuana.
There are many things that have some medical benefits, but either are otherwise too harmful, or generally have not been sufficiently studied, to be properly used as medicine.
Medicine is regulated (in the US) by the FDA. If you want to pass something off as medicine, then you need to meet the requirements of the FDA, and marijuana falls way short. Way. Edited by Rambino - 02 April 2009 at 2:04pm |
|||||
[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg">
|
|||||
oreomann33
Platinum Member Can you say ... ZAZZy? Joined: 11 March 2004 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 8100 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Just for good measure: LOL MARY JANE
|
|||||
|
|||||
IMPULS3.
Member Guested Joined: 07 November 2008 Status: Offline Points: 579 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Seems like everyone who are opposed to legalizing, are the ones who need to smoke. It would calm you guys down a little, or drink some scotch. I don't care, just do something.
|
|||||
Glassjaw
Platinum Member Took down Mike Tyson Joined: 13 July 2004 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 6454 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Doctors are there for suggestions, not to enforce upon you what to do. Besides that, medical marijuana is prescribed. Edited by Glassjaw - 01 April 2009 at 9:38pm |
|||||
|
|||||
You Wont See Me
Moderator Group Found in Big Als underwear drawer Joined: 02 December 2003 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 13334 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
No, that's why we have doctors and prescriptions. Edited by You Wont See Me - 01 April 2009 at 9:14pm |
|||||
A-5
E-Grip JCS Dual Trigger DOP X-CORE 8 stage x-chamber Lapco Bigshot 14" Beadblasted Optional setup: R/T Dead on Blade trigger |
|||||
choopie911
Moderator Group Commie Canuck Joined: 01 June 2003 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 30773 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Thanks for reading my posts then jerk, I linked to it a couple pages ago. And the dude up there has a point. As I already explained, marinol simply isn't a suitable alternative. |
|||||
obnoxious
Member Joined: 13 May 2007 Status: Offline Points: 142 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
I appreciate your latter comments on recreational use, and though I do see your hesitation in calling medicinal marijuana legitimate, I have to keep insisting that there is a use for the substance. Marinol is indeed a direct, non smoked source of THC that does work for many people. The problem lies in the fact that marijuana itself contains around sixty or seventy additional cannabinoids, many of which provide additional therapuetic benefit. There has also been some comments that suggest Marinol is in itself more pyschoactive than traditional cannabis, which in a medical sense, would be completely unecessary. I have uncles and aunts that are doctors, and though I think they would not prescribe marijuana as a primary means of medication, I know that they are not opposed to the idea of cannabis being used as a therapeutic agent. Some people light up, or vaporize, some marijuana as a quick means of comfort with what I would consider zero side effects. Who should delineate between legal and illegal medicine? Shouldn't the patient be able to medicate himself as he wishes, provided he does no harm to others? It is completely tyrannical when those who are not afflicted make decisions for those who are and claim to know what kind of personal impact it has on them. Regardless, it should not even be an issue of it's effectiveness in treating illness as compared to other drugs. As long as you concede there is some benefit to marijuana usage, then it is considered medicine. It's comparison to other drugs is completely moot when you are talking about legalization. |
|||||
|
|||||
Rambino
Platinum Member I am even less fun in person Joined: 15 August 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16593 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Never heard of it.
|
|||||
[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg">
|
|||||
High Voltage
Platinum Member Fire in the disco Joined: 12 March 2003 Location: 127.0.0.1 Status: Offline Points: 14179 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Hey Rambs, just curious, have you watched The Union?
|
|||||
|
|||||
Rambino
Platinum Member I am even less fun in person Joined: 15 August 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16593 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Entirely different question.
Toke up all you want. I don't care. I might care if you worked for me, were dating my daughter, or standing too close, but otherwise blaze away.
I think I have been pretty clear that I support legalization of almost all recreational drugs, for a variety of reasons. But that does not make the medicinal marijuana scam any less lame.
|
|||||
[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg">
|
|||||
choopie911
Moderator Group Commie Canuck Joined: 01 June 2003 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 30773 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
What is your view on personal consumption? Forget the medical mumbo jumbo, this isn't claiming any health wonder cures or anything, just want to be able to use it lawfully. As there still isn't really a legitimate reason for it to be illegal in the first place don't you think consenting adults partaking in a substance less harmful than MANY substances we eat regularly, and legally should be ok? |
|||||
procarbinefreak
Moderator Group Budget Medical Procedures Available Joined: 12 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12920 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
I like how FE just reads the title of some of the articles posted.
i lol'd at the lead poisoning one. |
|||||
agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Much like THC can help alleviate inflammation and nausea in humans, Rambino can help alleviate stupid and poor arguments in threads.
|
|||||
Rambino
Platinum Member I am even less fun in person Joined: 15 August 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16593 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
I suspect I missed some of the discussion in the last 17 pages, but anyway:
1. The FDA has never approved a plant for medicinal use. Not once. There are several reasons, but a major reason is that plants and other "natural" products contain a large number of chemicals instead of a single compound, which makes testing difficult and the results unreliable. Moreover, it is almost a certainty that some of the compounds are harmful and at the same time unnecessary for the medicinal benefits. Instead, the practice of modern medicine has been to isolate the useful compounds from natural sources. These compounds are what the FDA approves.
2. The FDA has never approved any drug for delivery by smoking. This delivery system is generally inefficient and erratic, and usually harmful. Dosing cannot be properly managed by smoking, and there are usually significant carcinogens involved in smoking.
3. There has been a fair amount of research on the medicinal value of THC. There is much study yet to be done, but THC at a minimum appears to have good anti-inflammatory qualities, and may have significant therapeutic value in a variety of applications.
4. There are at least two FDA-approved THC products on the market in pill form. Apparently the manufacturers are working on an inhaler delivery system as well. These products deliver all the benefits of THC in a safe and carefully dosed manner, without the side effects of smoking or the negative effects of the non-THC chemicals found in marijuana au natural.
Based primarily on these observations (and internet discussions such as this one), my conclusion is that "medical marijuana" is a load of BS, a lame excuse for people to dodge state/federal drug laws. If THC is useful for you, then your doctor can prescribe Marinol. Every doctor I know would consider it malpractice to prescribe marijuana, simply because it isn't a very good medicine and has harmful side effects - not to mention that the source of the "medicine" is often not reputable. And moreover, for most patients the benefits of THC in current use can be had from other sources with greater effect.
Edited by Rambino - 01 April 2009 at 12:03pm |
|||||
[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg">
|
|||||
Linus
Platinum Member Strike 1 - language 6.29.10 Joined: 10 November 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7908 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Yeah, pretty much. |
|||||
|
|||||
rednekk98
Moderator Group Dead man... Joined: 02 July 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8995 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
I'm not advocating getting baked out of your brain, but your sources could use some critiquing.
Since this is a medicinal thread, I would hope that any doctor would be able to weigh risks and benifits when prescribing MM to patients. Doctors prescribe meds with side effects all the time, some are more serious than these, and possibly more common, although data is not avilable. As for the talk about legalization, the drug gangs in Mexico get 65%-70% of their revenue from pot, and I have to wonder about the severed feet that wash up in Canada. The repealing of prohibition certainly tuned down the gang-violence fuel by running booze, and my state of MA hasn't gone to hell in a handbasket since pot was decriminalized. As a society we value the liberty that allows us to occasionally do dangerous things and generally seem to prefer trsuting the individual to make good choices. We can and shoot and own high capactiy, semi-automatic firearms that shoot bullets made out of toxic lead, or buy enough booze to kill ourselves. We can jump motorcycles over flaming schoolbusses, text/shave/drink coffee while driving etc. and if someone wants to try to outlaw stupidity we complain that it restricts our liberty. I don't see how you, or many other conservatives, can reconcile you allegedly conservative beliefs of a less-restrictive government while being for government restriction on a relativly harmless drug, gay marriage, and would support forcing children to learn intelligent design in school, which is inherintly a religous philosophy. That's right up there in my book with "liberals" being against killing convicted violent criminals and for killing unborn fetuses. I'm convinced that neither traditional conservatives or liberals have any regard for individual liberty and are more concerned with restricting things the opposing side likes to do. Edited by rednekk98 - 01 April 2009 at 11:18am |
|||||
FreeEnterprise
Moderator Group Not a card-carrying member of the DNC Joined: 14 October 2008 Location: Trails Of Doom Status: Offline Points: 4910 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
lol at the irony of his given name...
|
|||||
They tremble at my name...
|
|||||
little devil
Member one language strike, 2/23/10 Joined: 29 June 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 983 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Taxing it past what it's already taxed by dealers would make it a retarded amount of money to buy the stuff. Which leads me to believe that alot of the people growing now wouldnt stop and just under sell the government. And I imagine ALOT of organized crime depends on the money they get from pot. Though I find it hard to believe http://bcmarijuanaparty.com/v2/node/25 this sites claims 10 billion a year in B.C. going to organized crime because marijuana. Edited by little devil - 01 April 2009 at 9:09am |
|||||
FreeEnterprise
Moderator Group Not a card-carrying member of the DNC Joined: 14 October 2008 Location: Trails Of Doom Status: Offline Points: 4910 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
I can't believe you guys are still fussing around about this... Guess it takes a ton of facts to get through the smoky haze you call "consciousness".
Here are some facts for you to burn through...
I'm glad Sagan was mentioned... Since many doctors believe the disease he contracted came from his altered DNA caused by marijuana... Guess you bypassed that little diddy, huh, dopers.
"Researchers in America have found that blood from marijauna smokers has nearly three times as many DNA mutations as that of non-smokers. "
Also, I find it funny that you guys bring up Phelps... Who has had his endorsements (which is how you make money as an athlete) destroyed by ONE photo of him smoking pot...
Which once again proves the point... ITS ILLEGAL! Don't do it, unless you don't care if you ruin your future...
Woo Hoo!
Pot causes testicular cancer... That sounds great, huh!
Whoo Hoo!
Marijuana causes memory problems, and emotional problems for patients with MS. (who would have guessed...)
Proof of this fact is evident by reading this thread...
Marijuana causes BRAIN DAMAGE. Whoo, Woot, your "retarded" from your last hit... (not "retarded as in bad, I'm just using the term like Obama did...)
High Potency Marijuana Causes Paranoia and Psychosis
Yeah! Marijuana causes mental illness, Whoot, Woo!
Wow, Skin cancer caused by marijuana.
Oh, Oh, Lead poisoning too. Yes, that is always fun!
Man, a party isn't a party until you get lead poison, and the following...
"Twenty patients were recently admitted to University Hospital Leipzig, Germany for the treatment of lead poisoning after smoking marijuana. Admissions occurred over a period of 3-4 months, and all of the patients were 16 to 33 years of age.
One of the patient required abdominal surgery, one had severe mental changes as the result of encephalopathy (brain disease); accompanied by hallucinations. Primary symptoms included abdominal cramps, nausea, anemia, and fatigue. Another patient experienced permanent paralysis of the forearm. Investigation uncovered a common pattern among those treated – all were young, unemployed, or were students, and they all provided a history of smoking. Additionally, they all had body piercings; eventually admitting to smoking marijuana with a water pipe, or rolled into a joint." Here is some more "pot logic"... "Hey, there ain't lead in pot... Your making stuff up free..."
"It took eight weeks to find the source of the problem - it seems that lead was deliberately added to the marijuana to increase the weight and street value by an estimated 10%. The lead, grayish in appearance, was not noticeable to the consumers."
|
|||||
They tremble at my name...
|
|||||
TheDude
Member Joined: 14 September 2008 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||
Alright, whatever man, this must have been really important to you. haha. I'm checking out with pb on this one.
|
|||||
"According to Sue Johanson, theres nothing that can increase your manhood, trust me I've already looked into it for myself." -Zata
<keep the sigs friendly, please> |
|||||
Post Reply | Page <12345 20> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |