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Tippmann scapegoats
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Old Man Shea View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 November 2009 at 9:58am
Why does it seem that  everywhere i go, people hate tippmanns? When online and talking with friends everyone downplays the tippmann name like they are cheap plastic cap guns from china. 

Edited by Old Man Shea - 19 November 2009 at 10:00am
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God View Drop Down
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Jealousy.  Or they want to make themselves feel better for paying 2x, 3x, 4x, or even 5x as much for their markers.
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I think it's pretty common for owners of high end equipment to look down on more entry level equipment regardless of the sport, hobby etc. And if I am not mistaken, some Tippmann products actually are being made in China. Irony of that is, so are others.

 
* corrected for accuracy.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 19 November 2009 at 1:44pm
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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The latest Tippmann markers: The X-7 Phenom, SL-68 II and Tpx are all made in the USA. 
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Originally posted by God God wrote:

The latest Tippmann markers: The X-7 Phenom, SL-68 II and Tpx are all made in the USA. 
Good to know, but aren't most of the current 98 variants, 98, AB, PS, made in China?
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Yes, I do believe that some of Tippmann's markers are Made in China. But I know that Tippmann has rejected and had some products redone when the product hasnt meet their high standards.
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The Alpha Black and Project Salvo markers are Assembled in the USA with parts made in China. The reason for this is to cut cost and transfer those costs directly to the new player or a player looking for a solid back up marker.

There is no "M-4" out the box marker in the market for the price of the ABT Project Salvo.
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You want to see hate, We were the only team to tie the toughest, undefeated Xball team in our league.

We we're shooting Tippmann's, they were shooting Ego's and Geo's Wink

Seriously though, I don't see the hate you mentioned. Yeah the high end marker owners
may hate on us sometimes, but like God said, for the price of their markers we'll let them.
Last weekend I played woodsball with an 18 year old Tippmann Marker, it was glorious.
My son used my 98 because his PMR broke down.
 
I'm not claiming Tippmann's are better than any other marker, they're just better for me.
 
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Originally posted by TinMan TinMan wrote:

I'm not claiming Tippmann's are better than any other marker, they're just better for me.

I hear ya!Wink
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I don't think there is that much hate for Tippmann, Smart parts yes, Tippmann not so much. I do think there is a lack of respect sometimes by noob electronic owners towards Tippmanns.  When first starting out it is easy to get infatuated with rate of fire, but I would rather not go though a hopper and 3 pods in one game.
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I agree with everything thats already been said. Mostly the fact that these guys need to justify spending an ass load more money on their markers than tippmann owners do, and get the same results that we do.

Plus, I'd imagine there's quite a bit of irritation in their camp over the fact that a marker deemed 'entry level' can hold up to the higher end markers with a slight bit of modification.
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Originally posted by Evil Elvis Evil Elvis wrote:

The Alpha Black and Project Salvo markers are Assembled in the USA with parts made in China. The reason for this is to make a better profit margin
 
Fixed.
 
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Horses for courses, as the old addage goes.
all about jealousy, it's human nature.
but according to me a reasonably mature male, in age alone, tippman products have not let me down under the african sun so far, a lot of other brands can't claim that much.
we have a ball torture testing any and all products to destruction over here , if it can survive bush warfare it is good.
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Here are the reasons why people hate on Tippmanns: (These are not my views unless I said they are. These are paraphrases ideas I collected off the internet and in talking wit players at speedball and scenario tournaments.)

The cyclone system is worthless for any type of speedball. It is like having a football on the side of your gun. This is most likely why you see a lot of posts asking if they could take the cyclone off of their A5/X7/Phenom.

The cyclone system is hard on paint. It is like a blender. I have had a problem like this but it was that my paintballs were horrible, it wasn't the cyclone.

They are heavy. This doesn't bother me but if you were to talk to a person with an Invert Mini it probably would. Out of the box they are heavier than other guns and if you put a stock, mag, shroud, etc. on them they get really heavy.

MY VIEW: They don't shoot fast in semi-auto. My field only allows semi-auto and I can't compete with my 98. You can't work a Tippmann double trigger or any after-market double trigger for a Tippmann.

They are very expensive. (This is MY VIEW and I did this with a 98 long ago)
Originally posted by God God wrote:

Jealousy.  Or they want to make themselves feel better for paying 2x, 3x, 4x, or even 5x as much for their markers.
Buy a Phenom. Put a flatline on it. New mag because the stock one is awful. Stock. Foregrip. Bipod. A second barrel say 14" J&J. Put a suppressor on it. Upgrade your cyclone. Put a sight on your gun, red dot maybe. Now you need a raised rail because you can't see the sight if you are using a stock. How about a tac light. Now you decided that you don't like the stock handguard that you use with your J&J and suppressor. 
TELL ME WHICH GUN COSTS MORE NOW!!!

They are hard on paint. If you were to buy a gun like an Ego, a chop would be cause for concern and you might take your gun apart to see if there is something wrong with it. Tippmanns break paint all the time.

They are gas hogs. The operating pressure of a Tippmann (phenom excluded) is about 550 PSI. The Phenom is 300. Lets take a look at the WDP Angel A1. The operating pressure is 30 PSI. Tippmanns most air efficient gun needs 10X more air to operate.

They are complicated. I haven't had a problem with this personally. A high-end gun has no more than 5 parts that make up the bolt. A tippmann has a lot. I don't know how many but there is a lot of stuff going on in the chamber too.

The front and back grips are too far apart on an A5 and 98. I think this is ridiculous but I guess. 

The grips suck. You can't upgrade the grips on any Tippmann after the 98. Again, not my view.

MY VIEW: The X7, Phenom, and all variants of the US Army line do not come with a foregrip. I like foregrips.

A lot of the parts that fit on the X7 don't work for the Phenom. I don't have a Phenom but I've seen an awful lot of complaints.

Tippmanns don't use standard macro-line. I couldn't care less but to some people this makes a big deal.

Tippmanns do not use regular detents or eyes. I would have liked to see eyes on the Phenom but detents don't bother me.

Tippmanns don't have regulators of any kind. (Phenom excluded) I don't think they need them but...

They don't come with good stock barrels. I think you would upgrade even if they did but...

You have to use a different barrel adapter for the flatline. 

You can't change the ASA. I don't care but some do.

I guess that is it. You wanted to know why. I can't see much more that can be said. Please don't flame me, remember, unless I said it was, these are not my views.
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I know the below weren't your views, but I feel like a rebuttal is in order- most of those claims are silly at best.

Originally posted by buhju1 buhju1 wrote:



The cyclone system is worthless for any type of speedball. It is like having a football on the side of your gun. This is most likely why you see a lot of posts asking if they could take the cyclone off of their A5/X7/Phenom.

Speedball isn't the only way to play paintball. Conversely, the markers used for speedball may not be practical for the player who takes woodsball seriously.

The cyclone system is hard on paint. It is like a blender. I have had a problem like this but it was that my paintballs were horrible, it wasn't the cyclone.

This is complete hokum. 2  A5s, an X7 and a phenom....and none of the cyclones are 'blenders.' use cheap paint, and any feed system is going to screw up.

They are heavy. This doesn't bother me but if you were to talk to a person with an Invert Mini it probably would. Out of the box they are heavier than other guns and if you put a stock, mag, shroud, etc. on them they get really heavy.

boo hoo? They're not that heavy. If you're going to complain about the weight of a loaded paintball gun, pick up nerf checkers- you don't belong.

MY VIEW: They don't shoot fast in semi-auto. My field only allows semi-auto and I can't compete with my 98. You can't work a Tippmann double trigger or any after-market double trigger for a Tippmann.

This one I'll give some approval. Heavier trigger pull in general makes a fast semi-auto tough to pull off.

They are very expensive. (This is MY VIEW and I did this with a 98 long ago)

This I don't get. For the price you pay, you get a fully functioning marker with all you need to go shoot right now. (minus tank and paint) Not to mention the fact that the customer service and reliability of the marker are well worth any added expense you might imagine.

Originally posted by God God wrote:

Jealousy.  Or they want to make themselves feel better for paying 2x, 3x, 4x, or even 5x as much for their markers.
Buy a Phenom. Put a flatline on it. New mag because the stock one is awful. Stock. Foregrip. Bipod. A second barrel say 14" J&J. Put a suppressor on it. Upgrade your cyclone. Put a sight on your gun, red dot maybe. Now you need a raised rail because you can't see the sight if you are using a stock. How about a tac light. Now you decided that you don't like the stock handguard that you use with your J&J and suppressor. 
TELL ME WHICH GUN COSTS MORE NOW!!!

This isn't fair at all...All of the things you mention here are OPTIONAL. If you start tallying up the OPTIONS on some of the other speedball markers- faster hoppers, high end barrels and inserts, new boards, good batteries, multi-hued grips, new feedneck perhaps....you're going to pay more....much, much more, not to mention that you HAVE to use a much more expensive HPA setup, so add an easy $120 immediately on top of your marker purchase in order for you to even be able to shoot the thing. You'll find that a fully functioning tippmann is MUCH easier in the wallet than most of the other choices.

They are hard on paint. If you were to buy a gun like an Ego, a chop would be cause for concern and you might take your gun apart to see if there is something wrong with it. Tippmanns break paint all the time.

Again, your choice and quality of paint makes all the difference. I'm not denying that I've had breaks in my tippmanns, but not enough to make me irritated at them.

They are gas hogs. The operating pressure of a Tippmann (phenom excluded) is about 550 PSI. The Phenom is 300. Lets take a look at the WDP Angel A1. The operating pressure is 30 PSI. Tippmanns most air efficient gun needs 10X more air to operate.

How can you compare the COST of the phenom in one post, then ignore its operating pressure in the next? Yes, in general, they've got a higher consumption of air. But with most games offering all day air, or the ability to buy an extra Co2 tank to the tune of $20, I'll not lose any sleep over it.

They are complicated. I haven't had a problem with this personally. A high-end gun has no more than 5 parts that make up the bolt. A tippmann has a lot. I don't know how many but there is a lot of stuff going on in the chamber too.

And yet I've never had to re-solder anything on my tippmanns. Enter also the Phenom, which vastly simplifies the tippmann.

The front and back grips are too far apart on an A5 and 98. I think this is ridiculous but I guess.

What?

The grips suck. You can't upgrade the grips on any Tippmann after the 98. Again, not my view.

If you're into that sort of thing, okay, I can see that. In general though, I don't know ANYONE whose complained about it for real.

MY VIEW: The X7, Phenom, and all variants of the US Army line do not come with a foregrip. I like foregrips.

They're completely optional and not that expensive.

A lot of the parts that fit on the X7 don't work for the Phenom. I don't have a Phenom but I've seen an awful lot of complaints.

I can't offer any info on this, I haven't tried.

Tippmanns don't use standard macro-line. I couldn't care less but to some people this makes a big deal.

I hate macroline. Big smile

Tippmanns do not use regular detents or eyes. I would have liked to see eyes on the Phenom but detents don't bother me.

Can't offer anything here. The Detents don't bother me in the slightest.

Tippmanns don't have regulators of any kind. (Phenom excluded) I don't think they need them but...

If they don't need them.....but what?

They don't come with good stock barrels. I think you would upgrade even if they did but...

Fair enough, although I've got some pretty high hopes for the Phenom stock barrel.

You have to use a different barrel adapter for the flatline.

If you're willing to shell out for the flatline in the first place, the adapter won't matter much.

You can't change the ASA. I don't care but some do.

Most dont.

I guess that is it. You wanted to know why. I can't see much more that can be said. Please don't flame me, remember, unless I said it was, these are not my views.




I'm not flaming you, I just felt like refuting most of what was posted.
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Going to the Angel using 30 PSI to operate: Wha? Yeah, it may take 30 PSI to operate the ram, but you are still using a few hundred PSI to shoot the ball. There is NO way an Angel is 30x more efficient than a Tippmann. More efficient, sure, but your logic is a bit flawed.
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They sure as hell are mine Reb.
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Originally posted by TinMan TinMan wrote:

They sure as hell are mine Reb.


Pardon?

What are yours?
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A guns operating pressure has absolutly nothing to do with its efficiency. Its a balance of operating pressure, and the amount of time the valve is held open.

I can run my Tribal down to 150 psi, better than any other gun from the late 90's, but I have to put a 40ms dwell on it.
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Originally posted by The Guy The Guy wrote:

A guns operating pressure has absolutly nothing to do with its efficiency. Its a balance of operating pressure, and the amount of time the valve is held open.

I can run my Tribal down to 150 psi, better than any other gun from the late 90's, but I have to put a 40ms dwell on it.

You are aware that Dwell has to do with battery life, not air consumption right? Dwell is the amount of time your solenoid is powered after you shoot.

By the way, if you have high hopes for the Phenom stock barrel you will be disappointed. It is the same as the X7 basic. Unless of course that's what you wanted.

The paint I was using was $25 a case. I could drop it on the ground from waist-level and it would break. As I said however, I don't blame the cyclone for breaking that stuff. When your shells have the strength of wet paper, there isn't much you can do. It is the same way in winter with any paintballs. 

I figured my post would liven up this thread. I'm proud of myself.Big smile
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