We Stopped Dreaming |
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oldpbnoob
Platinum Member Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma Joined: 04 February 2008 Location: Yankee Stadium Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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So we as a country should invest billions upon billions of dollars into research and development so that commercial companies can make money? Seems that much like oil shales. They aren't profitable to use unless oil is above X number of dollars per gallon. I would think the same principles should apply to building spacecraft for the purpose of mining. Why should the government foot the bill for building clean rooms in outerspace so companies worth a kagillion dollars can make semiconductors easier? Answer is, we shouldn't. The people standing to make a profit from such endevours should be the ones footing the bill. |
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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Darur
Platinum Member Stare directly into my avatar... Joined: 03 May 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9178 |
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Sorry, been busy, but I'll try and address this and a few other points. You are right that these are all activities which should be, and would be, carried out by private enterprises. The trouble is, it's just not worth the massive investment in capital for a firm to perform the research and development to overcome these hurdles. Like Whale said, the free-market is fantastic at doing things cheaply and efficiently, but it doesn't necessarily handle investing in future like this very well. There needs to be a substantial investment to develop the tools and technology to enter space affordability, and very few private firms will be able or interested in making that investment. That's why programs like NASA are crucial. They provide the funding to make this research happen, even when the monetary returns from the research are not assured. Now some private firms have been doing this themselves for a while. SpaceX and Virgin Galactic come to mind. But we should still be trying to provide incentives for this type of research.
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Real Men play Tuba
[IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
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choopie911
Moderator Group Commie Canuck Joined: 01 June 2003 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 30773 |
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When I say "we" I mean humans. Curiosity and exploration is important. Heck how little we know about our own oceans is mind boggling. Yes it's crazy huge, but it's ON OUR PLANET and we know more about the moon than the ocean floor. Science needs funding, it's crucial to our progression in innumerable ways. |
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oldpbnoob
Platinum Member Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma Joined: 04 February 2008 Location: Yankee Stadium Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Rofl_Mao
Platinum Member request denied Joined: 27 October 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3210 |
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I'm sorry, I didn't know the USA owned the solar system. Excuse me. |
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usafpilot07
Moderator Group FreeEnterprise's #1 Fan & Potty Mouth Joined: 31 August 2004 Location: Tokelau Status: Offline Points: 4626 |
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We don't HAVE royals in America. It's not our fault those silly Canucks still love the old broad. |
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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
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oldpbnoob
Platinum Member Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma Joined: 04 February 2008 Location: Yankee Stadium Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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Looking more into it, there is some sort of Canadian Space Agency, but funding is less that 1/3 of a billion per year.
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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Mack
Moderator Group Has no impulse! control Joined: 13 January 2004 Location: 2nd Circle Status: Offline Points: 9906 |
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That was the Royal "We." Edited by Mack - 13 March 2012 at 10:01am |
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Lightningbolt
Platinum Member PHAT and PLAT Joined: 10 July 2002 Location: bumping up Status: Offline Points: 5055 |
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Gubmint has a way of funding the private sector when it benefits them. What happened to Johny Private Sector Moonshot from England? Edited by Lightningbolt - 13 March 2012 at 10:01am |
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oldpbnoob
Platinum Member Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma Joined: 04 February 2008 Location: Yankee Stadium Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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I mean this in the best possible way, but can the Canadian contengency please stop using the term "we" when referring to money that the U.S. Taxpayers put towards NASA and space exploration?
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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Rofl_Mao
Platinum Member request denied Joined: 27 October 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3210 |
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So, because we have "stalled," we should just keep cutting funding until we have nothing left to go on and rely on for-profit companies that have no interest in furthering humanity other than their own interests?
Even if private companies wanted to go to new planets (or hell, even the moon (which is completely possible)) to mine their resources, it would cost way more than any company could afford or be willing to risk. And that is the major problem that we have with privatizing the space industry. I'm not trying to say we should travel through space and time, which I agree is well beyond our grasp for the next couple hundred years, I'm saying that we should be able to reach within our own solar system in a relatively short time - if we put the effort into it. Edit: punctuation and formatting Edited by Rofl_Mao - 13 March 2012 at 9:52am |
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oldpbnoob
Platinum Member Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma Joined: 04 February 2008 Location: Yankee Stadium Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Rofl_Mao
Platinum Member request denied Joined: 27 October 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3210 |
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Sorry about that, but I get what your saying for the relative short term, but I'm trying to talk long-term. |
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RoboCop
Moderator Group Aw man, my butt is rusted... Joined: 06 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5196 |
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I'm more interested in finding other planets that are habitable. Not because I think we will get there, that would take a group of people populating themselves and training children strictly how to colonize a different planet, but to find other life forms. It's not realistic to send people past our solar system. Even if man were to go into the deep part of our solar system, they would be gone for so long they would be extremely disconnected. I believe it is fully possible to go to farther planets but it would be costly. If we could find other life, it would be the biggest discovery ever. I'm sure the churches would be freaking out. As a Christian, I believe there is other life. How could we be the only ones when there are so many possibilities? We have discovered some similar Earth planets, but they are always too hot and life wouldn't be possible. We just have to keep looking. It doesn't help we can barely observe other planets until they pass I front of their host star.
I love being a physics major with an astronomy minor. |
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tallen702
Moderator Group Hipster before Hipster was cool... Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: Under Your Bed Status: Offline Points: 11850 |
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I don't doubt that a rather large "cull" will occur before too much longer (in a geological time-scale sense) but the chances of the entire human race being wiped out by our own devices is slim when you actually sit down and think about it. By the end of the last ice age, the estimated human population for the whole planet was only around 20,000. That's less than half the population of the very small city I grew up in. Fairbanks, Alaska has more permanent residents than that by over 10k. If humankind was able to bounce back from that with nothing more than neolithic tools and hunter-gatherer lifestyles, I'm pretty sure we're resilient enough to deal with most of what could be thrown at us, especially given the wealth of shared knowledge we now possess not only online, but in good old-fashioned books. |
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Lightningbolt
Platinum Member PHAT and PLAT Joined: 10 July 2002 Location: bumping up Status: Offline Points: 5055 |
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Yeah we're fixing it real good right now
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Benjichang
Moderator Group I pwned Leroy Jenkins! Joined: 03 January 2004 Location: Ohiya Status: Offline Points: 12618 |
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I just wonder if we'll all kill ourselves and the planet before we really figure out how to get off of it.
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oldpbnoob
Platinum Member Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma Joined: 04 February 2008 Location: Yankee Stadium Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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tallen702
Moderator Group Hipster before Hipster was cool... Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: Under Your Bed Status: Offline Points: 11850 |
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The word "Lit.erally" screws it all up....
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tallen702
Moderator Group Hipster before Hipster was cool... Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: Under Your Bed Status: Offline Points: 11850 |
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What is truly important about going to other bodies within our own solar system is that we will need to tap the resources available out there to continue our own existence and advancement. Not only will we need the room, be it off-world colonies or cities in orbit, but we will need to expand the well from which we draw our resources. We only have finite amounts of rare elements and many, many other important elements to continue to advance our technology. It is estimated that some of the asteroids in our own belt, just between us and Mars, hold more of these elements in their relatively small bodies, than our entire planet does in its crust. It is impossible to know exactly what our future holds, but we have to remember that we actaully have a few billion years to figure out faster than light travel in some form or another to get us to other systems and other planets. This would allow us to continue on past the death of our own life-giving star. To think that we are at the top of our game in physics and technology, to be able to say that interstellar travel is "farcical" is in and of itself a farce. Where ND-T errs in his speech is to assume that during the space race, and even after the moon landings, the general public felt that NASA and space exploration were worth funding. They almost never did. The reality is that the only time in public record that opinion swung to the side of "the funding is worth the end result" was the year that we landed on the moon for the first time. All years leading up to, and following the initial moon landing point to less than half the population of the US supporting the costs associated with such scientific strides. We've simply been sold the myth of the supportive nation wanting to beat the Ruskies to the moon. In reality, we'd probably have never had to do so if we'd simply used a Redstone missile to put a satellite into orbit far earlier than the Russians with their R7 rocket family which were (and still are) essentially modified ICBMs. Degrasse-Tyson likes to talk about how we used to "Dream" when the reality is that he draws on commercial marketing ploys rather than scientific advances of the day. In reality, commercialization did more to fuel his idyllic "dream" than any cold, hard science from JPL or Goddard. Also, the music is from "Una Mattina" by Ludvico Einauldi who is a fantastic pianist and composer. I own the album. It is fantastic. Edited by tallen702 - 12 March 2012 at 7:54pm |
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