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__sneaky__
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Posted: 29 September 2016 at 11:19am |
Kayback wrote:
Damn I am so sick of this. If I have to unfriend any more political experts on FB I will have to close my account.
Coming from experience of bad presidents you guys are in trouble either way it goes. I don't know much about your 3rd party guy, he may be ok or he may be "not Trump/Hillary".
As far as I can see from this side of the ocean you don't have much positives running for either major candidate. There is a LONG list of negatives for both. |
This should tell you something about how much control "We the People" actually have over who becomes our president.
Apparently it's not a big issue, mind you. No one seems to want to acknowledge the underlying issues that stuck us with these two clowns in the first place.
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usafpilot07
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Posted: 29 September 2016 at 12:11pm |
__sneaky__ wrote:
Kayback wrote:
Damn I am so sick of this. If I have to unfriend any more political experts on FB I will have to close my account.
Coming from experience of bad presidents you guys are in trouble either way it goes. I don't know much about your 3rd party guy, he may be ok or he may be "not Trump/Hillary".
As far as I can see from this side of the ocean you don't have much positives running for either major candidate. There is a LONG list of negatives for both. | This should tell you something about how much control "We the People" actually have over who becomes our president.
Apparently it's not a big issue, mind you. No one seems to want to acknowledge the underlying issues that stuck us with these two clowns in the first place. |
Primarily a GOP that refuses to modernize and actually attempt to activate the untapped potential for young fiscal conservative/socially liberal voters by sticking to the "family values" version of the Republican party that hasn't changed its strategies in 30 years and a DNC that has a playbook so simple that everyone in the country can call their plays before the next "snap."
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Benjichang
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Posted: 29 September 2016 at 1:06pm |
usafpilot07 wrote:
__sneaky__ wrote:
Kayback wrote:
Damn I am so sick of this. If I have to unfriend any more political experts on FB I will have to close my account.
Coming from experience of bad presidents you guys are in trouble either way it goes. I don't know much about your 3rd party guy, he may be ok or he may be "not Trump/Hillary".
As far as I can see from this side of the ocean you don't have much positives running for either major candidate. There is a LONG list of negatives for both. | This should tell you something about how much control "We the People" actually have over who becomes our president.
Apparently it's not a big issue, mind you. No one seems to want to acknowledge the underlying issues that stuck us with these two clowns in the first place. |
Primarily a GOP that refuses to modernize and actually attempt to activate the untapped potential for young fiscal conservative/socially liberal voters by sticking to the "family values" version of the Republican party that hasn't changed its strategies in 30 years and a DNC that has a playbook so simple that everyone in the country can call their plays before the next "snap." |
And every time they lose they hire consultants to come up with a new plan, and every time it's pretty much what you just said. Then they don't listen and double down. And now we got Donald Friggin' Trump up there.
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usafpilot07
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Posted: 29 September 2016 at 2:54pm |
Benjichang wrote:
usafpilot07 wrote:
__sneaky__ wrote:
Kayback wrote:
Damn I am so sick of this. If I have to unfriend any more political experts on FB I will have to close my account.
Coming from experience of bad presidents you guys are in trouble either way it goes. I don't know much about your 3rd party guy, he may be ok or he may be "not Trump/Hillary".
As far as I can see from this side of the ocean you don't have much positives running for either major candidate. There is a LONG list of negatives for both. | This should tell you something about how much control "We the People" actually have over who becomes our president.
Apparently it's not a big issue, mind you. No one seems to want to acknowledge the underlying issues that stuck us with these two clowns in the first place. |
Primarily a GOP that refuses to modernize and actually attempt to activate the untapped potential for young fiscal conservative/socially liberal voters by sticking to the "family values" version of the Republican party that hasn't changed its strategies in 30 years and a DNC that has a playbook so simple that everyone in the country can call their plays before the next "snap." | And every time they lose they hire consultants to come up with a new plan, and every time it's pretty much what you just said. Then they don't listen and double down. And now we got Donald Friggin' Trump up there. |
Yup. Like I said, I'm voting for Trump reluctantly, but I absolutely see why so many don't like him.
I found a great article a while back about the ways the Republican party could have/should rebrand(ed) by realizing that making social platforms is going to be a losing proposition moving forward, and that if they don't realize it and start utilizing young fiscal conservative/social liberal voters, it's going to spiral until there is the DNC and a couple of "third party" equivalents fighting for scraps.
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__sneaky__
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Posted: 30 September 2016 at 12:18pm |
usafpilot07 wrote:
Benjichang wrote:
usafpilot07 wrote:
__sneaky__ wrote:
Kayback wrote:
Damn I am so sick of this. If I have to unfriend any more political experts on FB I will have to close my account.
Coming from experience of bad presidents you guys are in trouble either way it goes. I don't know much about your 3rd party guy, he may be ok or he may be "not Trump/Hillary".
As far as I can see from this side of the ocean you don't have much positives running for either major candidate. There is a LONG list of negatives for both. | This should tell you something about how much control "We the People" actually have over who becomes our president.
Apparently it's not a big issue, mind you. No one seems to want to acknowledge the underlying issues that stuck us with these two clowns in the first place. |
Primarily a GOP that refuses to modernize and actually attempt to activate the untapped potential for young fiscal conservative/socially liberal voters by sticking to the "family values" version of the Republican party that hasn't changed its strategies in 30 years and a DNC that has a playbook so simple that everyone in the country can call their plays before the next "snap." | And every time they lose they hire consultants to come up with a new plan, and every time it's pretty much what you just said. Then they don't listen and double down. And now we got Donald Friggin' Trump up there. |
Yup. Like I said, I'm voting for Trump reluctantly, but I absolutely see why so many don't like him.
I found a great article a while back about the ways the Republican party could have/should rebrand(ed) by realizing that making social platforms is going to be a losing proposition moving forward, and that if they don't realize it and start utilizing young fiscal conservative/social liberal voters, it's going to spiral until there is the DNC and a couple of "third party" equivalents fighting for scraps. |
I ask this question with as much respect as can be conveyed over pure text - but can I ask if there is a definite reason why you are choosing Trump over Clinton?
I would identify myself as one of those financially conservative/socially liberal voters, and I will be voting for Clinton for sure. I never thought I would have to communicate those words to another person, but I find Donald Trump to be an unacceptable option for the leader of my country.
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usafpilot07
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Posted: 30 September 2016 at 11:18pm |
__sneaky__ wrote:
usafpilot07 wrote:
Benjichang wrote:
usafpilot07 wrote:
__sneaky__ wrote:
Kayback wrote:
Damn I am so sick of this. If I have to unfriend any more political experts on FB I will have to close my account.
Coming from experience of bad presidents you guys are in trouble either way it goes. I don't know much about your 3rd party guy, he may be ok or he may be "not Trump/Hillary".
As far as I can see from this side of the ocean you don't have much positives running for either major candidate. There is a LONG list of negatives for both. | This should tell you something about how much control "We the People" actually have over who becomes our president.
Apparently it's not a big issue, mind you. No one seems to want to acknowledge the underlying issues that stuck us with these two clowns in the first place. |
Primarily a GOP that refuses to modernize and actually attempt to activate the untapped potential for young fiscal conservative/socially liberal voters by sticking to the "family values" version of the Republican party that hasn't changed its strategies in 30 years and a DNC that has a playbook so simple that everyone in the country can call their plays before the next "snap." | And every time they lose they hire consultants to come up with a new plan, and every time it's pretty much what you just said. Then they don't listen and double down. And now we got Donald Friggin' Trump up there. |
Yup. Like I said, I'm voting for Trump reluctantly, but I absolutely see why so many don't like him.
I found a great article a while back about the ways the Republican party could have/should rebrand(ed) by realizing that making social platforms is going to be a losing proposition moving forward, and that if they don't realize it and start utilizing young fiscal conservative/social liberal voters, it's going to spiral until there is the DNC and a couple of "third party" equivalents fighting for scraps. | I ask this question with as much respect as can be conveyed over pure text - but can I ask if there is a definite reason why you are choosing Trump over Clinton?
I would identify myself as one of those financially conservative/socially liberal voters, and I will be voting for Clinton for sure. I never thought I would have to communicate those words to another person, but I find Donald Trump to be an unacceptable option for the leader of my country. |
The Supreme Court justices, and that's literally it. I don't like Trump as the GOP candidate, but I have to at least hope that as long as he's trying to pretend to be a republican, he'd select justices I can at least be okay with.
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__sneaky__
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Posted: 01 October 2016 at 10:49am |
usafpilot07 wrote:
__sneaky__ wrote:
usafpilot07 wrote:
Benjichang wrote:
usafpilot07 wrote:
__sneaky__ wrote:
Kayback wrote:
Damn I am so sick of this. If I have to unfriend any more political experts on FB I will have to close my account.
Coming from experience of bad presidents you guys are in trouble either way it goes. I don't know much about your 3rd party guy, he may be ok or he may be "not Trump/Hillary".
As far as I can see from this side of the ocean you don't have much positives running for either major candidate. There is a LONG list of negatives for both. | This should tell you something about how much control "We the People" actually have over who becomes our president.
Apparently it's not a big issue, mind you. No one seems to want to acknowledge the underlying issues that stuck us with these two clowns in the first place. |
Primarily a GOP that refuses to modernize and actually attempt to activate the untapped potential for young fiscal conservative/socially liberal voters by sticking to the "family values" version of the Republican party that hasn't changed its strategies in 30 years and a DNC that has a playbook so simple that everyone in the country can call their plays before the next "snap." | And every time they lose they hire consultants to come up with a new plan, and every time it's pretty much what you just said. Then they don't listen and double down. And now we got Donald Friggin' Trump up there. |
Yup. Like I said, I'm voting for Trump reluctantly, but I absolutely see why so many don't like him.
I found a great article a while back about the ways the Republican party could have/should rebrand(ed) by realizing that making social platforms is going to be a losing proposition moving forward, and that if they don't realize it and start utilizing young fiscal conservative/social liberal voters, it's going to spiral until there is the DNC and a couple of "third party" equivalents fighting for scraps. | I ask this question with as much respect as can be conveyed over pure text - but can I ask if there is a definite reason why you are choosing Trump over Clinton?
I would identify myself as one of those financially conservative/socially liberal voters, and I will be voting for Clinton for sure. I never thought I would have to communicate those words to another person, but I find Donald Trump to be an unacceptable option for the leader of my country. |
The Supreme Court justices, and that's literally it. I don't like Trump as the GOP candidate, but I have to at least hope that as long as he's trying to pretend to be a republican, he'd select justices I can at least be okay with. |
I think this campaign season has made it pretty clear how much we can expect to put our faith in Donald Trump. I don't like Clinton, but at least I know she won't walk around dissolving international trade agreements when the mood strikes her fancy.
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oldsoldier
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Posted: 02 October 2016 at 2:17pm |
International Trade agreements that put the US in the position of disadvantage should be dissolved ASAP. NAFTA included. America should be first, products profitable and able to be made here, no rebranded Chinese or other junk flooding our markets making China 'rich' and America poorer.
Right now we need a true America first, world and immigrants second for awhile to recoup all we lost in this New World economy failed exercise. And still baffles me why illegal immigrants are higher in priority in medical care, than our Veterans? Explain that to me.
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__sneaky__
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Posted: 02 October 2016 at 4:33pm |
oldsoldier wrote:
International Trade agreements that put the US in the position of disadvantage should be dissolved ASAP. NAFTA included. Would you be willing to tell me how NAFTA puts the US at a disadvantage? The purpose of trade agreements is to lower the instance of "inefficiencies" that occur in international trade; tariffs for instance. By reducing these inefficiencies, international trade is more reflective of the natural supply and demand curves. This results in cheaper prices for consumers, increased trade capacity for both countries, increase production capacity for both countries, more jobs in both countries, lower rates of inflation for both countries, less instance of political and military aggression between both countries, higher levels of cultural integration between nations, more variety in the marketplace, etc. This is why trade unions are typically categorized by economists as "a good thing."
America should be first, products profitable and able to be made here, no rebranded Chinese or other junk flooding our markets making China 'rich' and America poorer.
This is not realistic in any capacity. Are you going to tell every company in the US that they have to manufacture here exclusively? Not only is that anti-free market, but it's impractical.
For a domestic business to import a product, at minimum they have to pay an overseas (think China, India, Southeast Asia, or possibly even Central/South America) factory's employment wages + overhead + profit margin, then pay to have those products shipped to the other side of the planet. Then as they are actually imported, you have to pay import taxes and tariffs on top of all of that. That's just your cost - you haven't even factored in marketing, R&D, YOUR profit margin, etc.
Yet, it is still dramatically cheaper for businesses to do all of that, compared to paying a factory (current) minimum wages that exist here in the United States. That's only a small part of the problem with Whale's $15/hr minimum wage argument. It is a magic bullet solution that does not work. Economists showed that this wouldn't work 200 years ago. Economics doesn't allow you to isolate one single issue and say, "This is the problem here - I have found it for you!" The global economy is a lot of factors working together, and they have to work together harmoniously and synchronously.
If you roughly double to current minimum wage, then you will dramatically increase the cost of doing business - especially the cost of having employees. Overtime as businesses adjust unemployment will rise. This is also connected to inflation rates, interest rates, the cost of living and the prices of all other consumer goods.
Balance is the only magic word in economics. It's not perfect - but it's the best case scenario. There are trade-offs for any and every decision you ever make. There are ways to modernize our economy and make it powerful, but we need to follow science and math - not history.
There is no way the United States can compete in terms of cheap cost of labor with China or India. China has 1.36 billion people and India has 1.25 billion. The US has 320 million and dramatically higher standard and costs of living. Right now we need a true America first, world and immigrants second for awhile to recoup all we lost in this New World economy failed exercise. And still baffles me why illegal immigrants are higher in priority in medical care, than our Veterans? Explain that to me.
"A true America" is honestly a meaningless term. I understand what you are trying to say, but "a true america" evokes a different picture in every individuals head - but we all assume we're talking about the same thing. I admit that as a veteran you have every right to be angry, and all I can respectfully ask you, is to direct your energy in a productive direction. Don't blame economics. |
Edited by __sneaky__ - 02 October 2016 at 5:11pm
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oldsoldier
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Posted: 02 October 2016 at 11:10pm |
I don't know, ask the Ford Small Auto Division employees that just had their jobs move to Mexico if they are not in a disadvantaged job market being a US labor force. Or the Carrier Air Conditioner employees that had their jobs move to Mexico if they are not in a disadvantaged labor market. Or Nabisco workers.....we can go on. NAFTA just allows US companies to manufacture in Mexico at far lower labor rates and ship the products here to sell at a full price based on a US labor force labor rates. When Ford for example moves small cars to Mexico for production will the American MSRP go down based on lower wage rate for the Mexican worker, you know the answer.
Understand that a return of manufacturing to the US is not practical, but why facilitate more manufacturing plants and moves to foreign markets, and the loss of US jobs?
How is it not troubling that our consumer needs are offering more jobs to overseas manufacturing markets than to our own workers?
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__sneaky__
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Posted: 03 October 2016 at 10:30am |
oldsoldier wrote:
I don't know, ask the Ford Small Auto Division employees that just had their jobs move to Mexico if they are not in a disadvantaged job market being a US labor force. Or the Carrier Air Conditioner employees that had their jobs move to Mexico if they are not in a disadvantaged labor market. Or Nabisco workers.....we can go on. NAFTA just allows US companies to manufacture in Mexico at far lower labor rates and ship the products here to sell at a full price based on a US labor force labor rates. When Ford for example moves small cars to Mexico for production will the American MSRP go down based on lower wage rate for the Mexican worker, you know the answer.
Understand that a return of manufacturing to the US is not practical, but why facilitate more manufacturing plants and moves to foreign markets, and the loss of US jobs?
How is it not troubling that our consumer needs are offering more jobs to overseas manufacturing markets than to our own workers? |
First of all, NAFTA has little to do with it being cheaper to outsource. It would still be cheaper to outsource without NAFTA's help. NAFTA benefits the customer as much as anyone else because we can buy a wider variety of products and spend less money for those products at the same time. NAFTA also does not make Mexican labor cheaper. Mexican labor IS cheaper, and then NAFTA reduces the taxes and tariffs associated with bringing their products into the US.
It does suck to be a Carrier Air Conditioner guy in the US right now. Which is why we need to start teaching our citizens not to rely on fields of industry that aren't likely to prosper in the US anymore. Stop trying to play checkers while the rest of the world is playing chess.
If you are a US citizen and you want to retire into the upper middle class - you should NOT be perusing a career as a machinist, or an architect, or as an air conditioning manufacturer. If that's your passion, that's fine - but be realistic about what we are dealing with. Those jobs don't need to be performed here. In fact, if you send them to another country to be done, the end product will be dramatically cheaper to buy.
A modernized economy needs high levels of education, and service jobs are much more standard than any type of manufacturing job. The US needs engineers, doctors, professors, accountants, more entrepreneurs, more jobs that involve trading your specialized knowledge and time for someone else's money (and most importantly) cannot economically be outsourced to another nation. We are not a nation of builders anymore - dollar for dollar, citizen for citizen, we just can't compete the global cost-of-labor numbers. If you want to discuss our countries competitive advantages, right now all I have got to offer you is education.
Don't get me wrong, currently, I work in a factory that makes batteries for NASA, DARPA, and the medical industries. It is a good living while I have it. However, I'm also pursuing my second bachelor's degree and as I'm working here, I'm working toward a career in Engineering. I am not working here because US manufacturing has a new golden age on the horizon.
Yes, it sucks for the Nabisco guys. I'm not trying to downplay this - it really does. However I would offer them the same piece of advice that I gave you in my previous reply. "Don't blame economics." Increased automation is going to be a thing. Increased outsourcing is also going to be a thing. Companies making hard decisions that put some US citizens in a difficult place financially - is also going to be a thing. It is going to be a thing because just like people, businesses are faced by a complex set of factors that drive their decisions.
If a company does not stay competitive, it fails. There is not enough beautifully articulated sentiment in the world to cover up the fact that these practices are less expensive and more efficient than the alternatives. It's just supply and demand.
Edited by __sneaky__ - 03 October 2016 at 11:39am
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Posted: 03 October 2016 at 3:39pm |
Trump is very bad at running for president.
When faced with a near-tie situation in national polling, after clawing his way back from being behind nearly 12 points he: - Refused to prepare for the debate and decided to wing it.
- Spent two weeks publicly attacking a former Miss Universe for her weight.
- Continues to not release his taxes, despite leaked documents from the 1990s probably showing that the damage is already done, that he has skirted paying taxes, has lost large sums of money in his businesses, and as a result isn't nearly as wealth as he acts.
I get that with guys like Bannon running the campaign, the strategy is very much about letting Trump do what he wants, but at some point someone has to look at the numbers and realize that every time he does this, he sinks whatever effort is made by acting like a real candidate. Same thing that happened when he spent two weeks attacking the parents of a dead veteran is happening now.
Boy.
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Posted: 03 October 2016 at 5:53pm |
oldsoldier wrote:
I don't know, ask the Ford Small Auto Division employees that just had their jobs move to Mexico if they are not in a disadvantaged job market being a US labor force. |
Ford won't lose any employees. They are going to produce different models at the same plant where the small cars were previously manufactured. Small cars are not profitable in the United States. That is why they are cutting manufacturing costs by moving production to Mexico. Selling a product for less than what you made it for wouldn't make sense. Selling it at cost doesn't make sense either. They really had no choice. Would you pay $22,000+ for a Ford Fiesta? I doubt many people would. Protectionist policies of the past have never done anything to spur the economy in the United States. In fact it has done the opposite. Whenever we have put tariffs on any imports that undercut comparable products made here, corresponding tariffs to our exports are put into place. Free trade is the only way to keep prices down in the United States.
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SSOK
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Posted: 04 October 2016 at 10:02pm |
Anyone want to sum up the veep debate? I'm not watching.
I consider myself very right wing but I'm very sour on pence. I believe that "religious freedom" or whatever silly anti-gay bills he signed do not belong in 2016.
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oldsoldier
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Posted: 05 October 2016 at 9:39am |
Another boring, yada, yada, yada, what my Candidate says debate... I lasted 15min before Netflix.
And WHY on almost every channel, complete with their opinions, all different of course.
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agentwhale007
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Posted: 05 October 2016 at 10:11pm |
SSOK wrote:
Anyone want to sum up the veep debate? I'm not watching. |
Kaine talked about Trump's refusal to release his tax returns, kinda shoehorned it into every response.
Pence tried to keep himself from having to defend stuff Trump has said about women, Hispanic people, etc.
You didn't miss much.
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Posted: 05 October 2016 at 10:26pm |
I've come to the conclusion that the moderators for all of these debates need to be chosen from a pool of preschool teachers. They at least know how to stop inane bickering and move things on.
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agentwhale007
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Posted: 05 October 2016 at 10:30pm |
Reb Cpl wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that the moderators for all of these debates need to be chosen from a pool of preschool teachers. They at least know how to stop inane bickering and move things on.
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The good news is Martha Raddatz is the next moderator up. She seems like she's less likely to let things get out of control.
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Posted: 06 October 2016 at 4:10pm |
Reb Cpl wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that the moderators for all of these debates need to be chosen from a pool of preschool teachers. They at least know how to stop inane bickering and move things on. |
At the risk of being hysterically funny, the moderators should be able to cut off the microphones of those who are debating. To do one better, each person should have to wear a shock collar the moderator controls. Anyone that likes to interrupt when it is not their time to talk gets a zap.
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 5:13pm |
Well I'd link to the most-recent Trump scandal, but I think it's probably against forum rules.
But it's not good, and I think, only a month out, this is probably the end.
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