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The 2016 election.

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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 3:01am
Wow, Hillary is NOT the President, you are right Whale did not go as expected by many, but she has no one else to blame but herself, America did not fall for it this time.

Again I did not vote for Trump, but against Hillary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 3:10am
Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

So I guess the question I have is: If Trump is going to pull off a victory, which states break from their polling trends to get him there?

I'd go out on a limb and say either New York or Pennsylvania.  Those are the only main states that would make a large enough impact.  My gut feeling is Clinton will carry both.  But of the two, I think Trump has a better chance at Pennsylvania than New York.
I guess I called it.  Color me surprised...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 3:11am
Whatever helps you sleep at night night knowing that you voted for possibly the least christian candidate to run in the last 20 years.  Not sure how you're going to rectify that with your savior but that's up to you.  Screw the poor, bomb the muslims, and marry anyone who is younger and hotter than your current wife.  I'm sure Jesus will understand.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 3:53am
Those of us who voted against a habitual liar, and a two face (public and private policies) agitator who though she was anointed, totally understand why America voted against her. Perception based on idiocy is not a good thing. Now read and figure all this out for yourself and STOP believing the 'press' who fed you all the idiocy and you believed it.

Hillary spent her life in preparation for this, and created all the monsters that defeated her. Trump until recently had no aspirations for this moment. The past behaviors of both are questionable, but America decided for the lessor of the two evils presented.

Edited by oldsoldier - 09 November 2016 at 3:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 4:41am
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


 ....America decided for the lessor of the two evils presented.


I'm getting bored of this statement. "Different" evil does not mean "Lesser."

My take on this whole thing is that the Democrats themselves managed to get Trump elected by actively driving voters away, either into the arms of Trump, or into the no-man's land that is third-party-ville.

The first misstep was the funny business with the primary election. It is my opinion that Sanders could have defeated Trump, but its become more apparent that the DNC wanted nothing to do with him. Even if they DIDN'T stack the deck, they made it look like they were willing to do so, which left a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of Sanders supporters.

Second, the left seemed to take a great joy in attacking undecided and third party voters. Maybe not at the top level, but on the streets, I heard undecided voters referred to as "The dumbest group of voters in the nation." They continued to drive away possible allies, and chose to battle red AND purple voters last night, and paid the price for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 5:23am
I'm still in disbelief. All I can really hope for is that this will not go as badly as I fear it might.

And how wrong the projections were... my god. 

So I guess that's it. They got to throw their hand grenade into the Washington establishment. Only time will tell how it works out. Honestly, I'm in shock still. I'm not sure if Trump even expected this outcome. Dude's gotta live with it now.  

2016 has been insane. I don't feel good about this. If you do, I'm glad you got what you wanted and I'm not saying that facetiously or anything... but we really need to end nasty rhetoric and divisiveness because it's only going to hurt us all.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 6:35am
Again the perception was too far out of whack, the 'press' tried their best, by the selected polls and other nonsense to convince American's that it was a done deal for Hillary. The covert, underground can't say what I truly believe Trump voter was the tipping point. This was America's statement we have had enough of the same old idiocy from you people, we can and we did tell you in no uncertain terms that the old way is no longer acceptable.

It is still unbelievable that a non Washington insider won, but Washington as well as the Democrats created this monster called Trump, and now watch as they do everything to try and slay the monster in the next 4 years. So in reality nothing changes but the nametags of the idiots in charge, as nothing will get done as the cooperation level stays the same between parties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 8:45am
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

I'm going going back back to war war. 
well that was happening either way. Hillary was the biggest war hawk the Democrats have ever had.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 8:48am
And for the record, I'm GLAD a social moderat/fiscal conservative won. Might just be the shift towards libertarianism the GOP has needed for 25 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Whatever helps you sleep at night night knowing that you voted for possibly the least christian candidate to run in the last 20 years.  Not sure how you're going to rectify that with your savior but that's up to you.  Screw the poor, bomb the muslims, and marry anyone who is younger and hotter than your current wife.  I'm sure Jesus will understand.  



What the actual?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

And for the record, I'm GLAD a social moderat/fiscal conservative won. Might just be the shift towards libertarianism the GOP has needed for 25 years.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2016 at 10:22am
I wonder if Trump being buddy buddy with Russia, he will lift the ban on Russian arms and ammo. I doubt it, the dude doesn't give a crap about free markets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2016 at 11:08am
Man, all the crying and protests from the left all over facebook and other social media is getting old... 

We get it, you are bent. You want this crappy economy and no job. You want $1,300 a month insurance that has $3,500 deductable and $12,500 before it kicks in for your family. 

You like massively corrupt government where the Clintons can run their foundation and sell access to the State Department and send classified emails over their private server so 5 other countries can steal them and blackmail them later... 

You enjoy an education system that puts the new kids graduating in debt for their lifetimes while all the good jobs have left leaving them serving coffee at Starbucks when they graduate and living in moms basement. 

We realize you think the media represents your interests and is "impartial", and middle America is backwards and racist and uneducated...

Problem is, elections have consequences. And we have tried the liberal way for long enough, we have given our jobs to other countries, tied our hands behind our backs with our energy by destroying coal, which took down countless other industries and towns in its wake, and now we need to actually take care of our people again by letting them start and run business without being taxed to death and regulated out of business. 

This article nailed it for all the journalists out there. But, although a few see the truth of this article, most will still be the same and not even realize the error of their ways. 



"It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that, with a few exceptions, we were all tacitly or explicitly #WithHer, which has led to a certain anguish in the face of Donald Trump’s victory. More than that and more importantly, we also missed the story, after having spent months mocking the people who had a better sense of what was going on.

This is all symptomatic of modern journalism’s great moral and intellectual failing: its unbearable smugness. Had Hillary Clinton won, there’s be a winking “we did it” feeling in the press, a sense that we were brave and called Trump a liar and saved the republic."

"So much for that. The audience for our glib analysis and contempt for much of the electorate, it turned out, was rather limited. This was particularly true when it came to voters, the ones who turned out by the millions to deliver not only a rebuke to the political system but also the people who cover it. Trump knew what he was doingwhen he invited his crowds to jeer and hiss the reporters covering him. They hate us, and have for some time.

And can you blame them? Journalists love mocking Trump supporters. We insult their appearances. We dismiss them as racists and sexists. We emote on Twitter about how this or that comment or policy makes us feel one way or the other, and yet we reject their feelings as invalid.

It’s a profound failure of empathy in the service of endless posturing. There’s been some sympathy from the press, sure: the dispatches from “heroin country” that read like reports from colonial administrators checking in on the natives. But much of that starts from the assumption that Trump voters are backward, and that it’s our duty to catalogue and ultimately reverse that backwardness. What can we do to get these people to stop worshiping their false god and accept our gospel?

We diagnose them as racists in the way Dark Age clerics confused medical problems with demonic possession. Journalists, at our worst, see ourselves as a priestly caste. We believe we not only have access to the indisputable facts, but also a greater truth, a system of beliefs divined from an advanced understanding of justice.

You’d think that Trump’s victory – the one we all discounted too far in advance – would lead to a certain newfound humility in the political press. But of course that’s not how it works. To us, speaking broadly, our diagnosis was still basically correct. The demons were just stronger than we realized.

This is all a “whitelash,” you see. Trump voters are racist and sexist, so there must be more racists and sexists than we realized. Tuesday night’s outcome was not a logic-driven rejection of a deeply flawed candidate named Clinton; no, it was a primal scream against fairness, equality, and progress. Let the new tantrums commence!"




It's sad really, Obama was elected on the basis of "hope and change". I knew what that "change" actually meant, as he passed all he wanted to with the lay down republicans who told us "elections have consequences" and they couldn't go against him and make the media mock them... 


But, the people didn't expect that "hope and change" to hit them in the wallet so hard. They liked working, but today 94,000,000 are unemployed. And the jobs you can find are low paying jobs... And with healthcare, now many can't find a single full time job and have to work a bunch of part time jobs. I know too many families where the parents (who now have to both work) and each of them have TWO jobs minimum to make ends meet while living in a small cramped 2 bedroom apartment with 3 kids... 


Again, America voted for change. And I actually think this change will be much better than the last promise of "shovel ready" jobs and "hope". 

Perfect example of why I think this... Trump won spending $5 per vote. WAAAY less than has ever been spent in a Presidential race in the last 20 years. Because he ran it as a business... And I pray he turns our government into a business as well, because making it a money pit with no accountability and endless money spent has bankrupted our country to the tune of 20 Trillion in debt and a crumbling country...


Make America great again was a vote for change in Washington, and proof that the country doesn't care what the media says anymore, because they are bought and paid for by the liberals who just got shown the door by the people who have seen their kids lose their opportunity to advance through the liberal destruction of our economy. 


The media sucks, and the public doesn't believe them anymore. Good luck selling ads in your propaganda anymore! We all saw you didn't fire all the journalists busted by wikileaks for colluding with Hillary and the DNC. 



Edited by FreeEnterprise - 10 November 2016 at 11:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2016 at 1:10pm
The real interesting part is all the things the Democrats promised post Hillary win went to nothing when they did not win. No working together or lack of division, now just increase the tear and division in our culture and keep open the wounds of division for their gain.

These demonstrations and behaviors from the Democrats who consider this a loss to our culture is the exact behaviors that led to the creation of The Donald.

2008 Obama wins, some radicals from the right claim he is not their president. Democrats lecture the Republicans on how he was elected everyone's President, yet now nothing from the Democrats when it is their 'faithfull' who state Trump is not their President. Do we understand yet, why The Donald rose from the behaviors of the Left?

I posted and predicted this behavior in our local paper from the loser side of this, and it came to be.

Sent to Lincoln Journal Star and printed: "Well here we are, less than 2 weeks till we have about one half of the nation happy, and the other about half mad. Someone will win the election, and all the back slapping, told you so's and other nonsense will fill the page here. While the losers will go instantly into a hissy fit of accusations and other idiocy. Our politics have become so polarized that the electorate more than not is not voting for a candidate but against the other candidate, and our choices this time are just plain awful, from both sides. It is far to late in the game of life for this election to have any real effect on me, my grand kids well totally different story. I vote for their future, what they will grow up into. Will they have it better than I did, seriously doubt it, no matter who is elected. My parents were "The Greatest Generation", I am part of the so-so generation, and my kids are in the hope we survive this generation, the grandkids, God Help Them. So when you vote, just ask yourself a simple question, how will you explain this and the effects therein to your grandkids, as we continue to steal from their generation for this instant gratification need of today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2016 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The real interesting part is all the things the Democrats promised post Hillary win went to nothing when they did not win. No working together or lack of division, now just increase the tear and division in our culture and keep open the wounds of division for their gain.

These demonstrations and behaviors from the Democrats who consider this a loss to our culture is the exact behaviors that led to the creation of The Donald.

2008 Obama wins, some radicals from the right claim he is not their president. Democrats lecture the Republicans on how he was elected everyone's President, yet now nothing from the Democrats when it is their 'faithfull' who state Trump is not their President. Do we understand yet, why The Donald rose from the behaviors of the Left?


OS makes a point and I have a question.  Why is that everywhere* I look at the liberal reaction to this November Surprise that the reason everyone voted for Trump is because all his supporters are racist, misogynistic, homophobic bigots.  Is it completely inconceivable to the far left that perhaps some people voted for Trump because they are lifelong Republicans and that's what they do, or because they found Hillary unlikable or untrustworthy, or because they disagree with the general approach Democrats would take to running the country or maybe even perhaps because with the ACA turning out to not be a cheaper option or allowing people to keep the doctors they like, as well as the rise of ISIS they just didn't think the last 8 years were indicative of successful leadership?  Apparently not. 

I didn't choose Trump, I chose not to be associated with a self-righteous mob that that purports to be progressive while shouting-down opposition after labeling and stereotyping them because it is easier than having rational discussion. 

*Everywhere being election analysis articles, blogs, comments to articles and even the Facebook posts of people I know and like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2016 at 12:28pm
Mack, this election was long, nasty, and emotional. It was like the OJ Simpson trial of elections- a lot of people got sucked into it and couldn't look away.  People were on edge on both sides, and no one really saw the result that we got coming (for the most part anyway). Lots of people are upset and some are legitimately scared of what a Trump presidency might bring.  I don't agree with them, but I can see where they're coming from.  Just like I don't agree with, but can see where people who voted Trump are coming from.  Stereotyping large groups of people isn't right no matter what side you're on, and it seems I'm seeing disgusting amounts of finger-pointing and blame being thrown around all over the internet.

The divisiveness worries me.

Edit- I wouldn't say that every liberal is out there calling all Trump supporters racist, etc is right or accurate. There are plenty level headed folks out there that can actually see the hypocrisy of it.  People are people and they want someone to blame instead of looking at what the DNC could have done better to not lose this one. Hopefully they'll come around.


Edited by Benjichang - 11 November 2016 at 12:31pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2016 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:


The divisiveness worries me.

Agreed.

Edit- I wouldn't say that every liberal is out there calling all Trump supporters racist, etc is right or accurate. There are plenty level headed folks out there that can actually see the hypocrisy of it.  People are people and they want someone to blame instead of looking at what the DNC could have done better to not lose this one. Hopefully they'll come around.


The DNC could have done a lot better.  I have to wonder how much their subversion (or appearance of subversion) of the democratic process in the Democratic Party chased away voters.

I don't think the media helped Hillary all that much either.  I believe there was bias by the media for Hillary and I think it help disguise the level of support Trump was gaining due to dissatisfaction with Hillary.  For a group that is all about image management having the media fawning on her as it did could only reinforce the incorrect perception that she was destined to win.  You have to wonder if less favorable coverage would have resulted in her having a better campaign and maybe realizing that you not only have to avoid wrongdoing but also the perception of wrongdoing.  (Not to mention that even some of her insiders worried that she came across as secretive, untrustworthy and insincere.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2016 at 1:36pm
I think this is only the beginning of a very interesting period of realignment politics. States that have long been Democratic strongholds flipped (WV, MI, OH) despite strong union ties and a voting history that tied them to the left. A man that is NOT a "GOP conservative" ran away with the Republican nomination. 

We've all seen the rhetoric from the losing side, and it's been discussed plenty here. What I do want to see is how things go moving forward. 

I've got "friends" on facebook who talk a lot about how insulted they feel everytime the media harps on "educated voters." These are people that make way more than I do, but do it through trades or having moved up through the ranks at manual labor jobs into supervisory roles. 

People of all races who DIDN'T vote for nefarious reasons now see themselves being called bigots, racists, misogynists(despite contrary numbers among female voters), etc., and also see the riots/protests/etc from the same people they feel are attacking their way of life. 

Those factors aren't going to sway ANYone to vote differently 4 years from now, if anything, it will spread that fear to more people, boost the numbers for the right and entrench them even more strongly in 2018.

On a somewhat related note, the Democratic party needs to make some moves, fast. They've got a pretty light bullpen of anyone they can hang their hat on and start grooming as challengers in 2020/2024, and if the Trump election DOES actually get the GOP to revamp their branding/strategy/etc and the Dems don't move to head them off for the youth vote? Things could get interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2016 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:


Why is that everywhere* I look at the liberal reaction to this November Surprise that the reason everyone voted for Trump is because all his supporters are racist, misogynistic, homophobic bigots.  Is it completely inconceivable to the far left that perhaps some people voted for Trump because they are lifelong Republicans and that's what they do, or because they found Hillary unlikable or untrustworthy, or because they disagree with the general approach Democrats would take to running the country or maybe even perhaps because with the ACA turning out to not be a cheaper option or allowing people to keep the doctors they like, as well as the rise of ISIS they just didn't think the last 8 years were indicative of successful leadership?  Apparently not. 

I didn't choose Trump, I chose not to be associated with a self-righteous mob that that purports to be progressive while shouting-down opposition after labeling and stereotyping them because it is easier than having rational discussion. 

*Everywhere being election analysis articles, blogs, comments to articles and even the Facebook posts of people I know and like.


Because they can't face the reality that they were absolutely incredibly wrong about what working-class America was thinking, and that the very foundations of their political beliefs and moral grandstanding were built upon quicksand. They also can't seem to find the exit door on their collective echo chamber which is what is preventing them from truly hitting the ground running in a positive way.

The Democratic party has completely lost their focus. A party that, at one point in time not long ago was easily able to say that they represent working class families, values, and jobs, is completely out of touch with working class America at this point. I wholeheartedly encourage/challenge anyone who is shocked by the result of this election to get down off their soapbox and go volunteer in some way, in working class neighborhoods in places like the rust belt, central Appalachia, and rural communities in general. Be it through weekend or week-long projects like Appalachia Service Project, or long-term commitments like Teach for America and Americorp VISTA, you need to get out of your comfort zone and see how the other side lives so that you can better understand how to actually help them. If liberals/democrats make a concerted effort to do so, it will help bridge the divide and (hopefully) lead to more meaningful and effective policies in the future. But until that happens, the working class of America will continue to view the current Democratic Party (and really all establishment politicians regardless of their party affiliation) as an intellectual elite, centered in cities, and aloof to the problems facing the rest of American society today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2016 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

I think this is only the beginning of a very interesting period of realignment politics. States that have long been Democratic strongholds flipped (WV, MI, OH) despite strong union ties and a voting history that tied them to the left. A man that is NOT a "GOP conservative" ran away with the Republican nomination. 


Presidentially, WV has been solidly, reliably red since 2000. Prior to that, the only time the state ever went red after 1928 was during an election that saw a successful and (relatively) popular Republican incumbent running for a second term (Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan).

Where they have made a flip is in the House of Representatives (I think everyone is now GOP there) and in the state-level representation. The new governor is a DINO for all intents and purposes, but still a Democrat in name none the less.

What's really pissing people off back home right now is that Sen. Manchin is likely going to flip to the GOP. He's a douche and I hope he's laughed out of the senate chambers when he does so.
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