![]() |
Woodsball/Scenario Players Post |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page <1 567 |
Author | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
A-5 Command ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 662 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I agree i think we need to find a new word instead of paintball sniper so people can stop refering to the military definition and so we dont dishoner real military snipers. It gets repeated over and over again and gets annoying after a while. I agree with, you can snipe in paintball but their are no paintball snipers. Shooting someone from a concealed position and remaining undetected after doing so can be difficult, but definatly not impossible. This is also called ambush though.... Hmm.... I will re name this stratagy sharp-shooting as opposed to "sniping" so i dont get slaped in the face by military who feel disrespected if i say "we have 1 sniper on our team" |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
A-5
Flatline E-Grip Tapco T-6 stock JCS Duel Trigger JCS Universal BiPod Core Remote 88ci/4500psi Crossfire R-5 Hopper Apex Barrel Hot Shot red dot Lapco offset Spec Ops A5-A2 grip |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Betterdays ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 May 2004 Status: Offline Points: 310 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I agree with Mack, especially that it annoys me greatly I could not be so concise. Kudos to BrushHog. Great job! ![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jerseypaint ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: 16 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3649 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
wow 7 pages of useless info just to get to BrushHog's "it is possible to snipe a paintballer, however there will never be a paintball sniper"
thats it that comment ends this thread and any1 else who makes an explination is wasting there time because what they say has probably been said in the previous pages. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
eliminator ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Drinks from the Toilet Joined: 18 June 2005 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 667 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I'll make a comment if i want to.... JK. Any ways i do think there is a form of snping in paint ball but not just one person.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
__||__
[ }------ =() =() //' || R THOSE MY BALLS ON UR FACE |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
rednekk98 ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Dead man... Joined: 02 July 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8995 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Care to clarify eliminator?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Snake6 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Outranked by guitarguy? Joined: 11 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11229 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The History of Military Sniping, and how it relates to the Game of Paintball. Ok. So I got bored, and I am sick and tried of this stupid sniper debate. I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas, and didn’t know what else to get so I picked up several books on Military Snipers. Here are my findings. < -- Note: Due to a problem with my code, you have to Highlight my rifle comparison tables to see them. It’s a bother, but if someone knows how to fix it, PM me. -- > First lets go over the basics of what a sniper is, and what a sniper is not. “A sniper…is considered a specialist, whose prime function is to kill selected high value targets at long range using superior skill and armament. A sharpshooter, by contrast, is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises” From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert Keep this in your mind as you read the rest of the article. The American Revolution (1775-83) Sniping first came onto the battlefield during the American Revolution. Standard infantry of this period were equipped with “Brown Bess” smoothbore muskets. The Continental Congress approves 10 independent companies, armed with long rifles. The men of these companies were the first snipers. Comparison between the “Brown Bess” musket, and the Long Rifle. “A soldiers musket, if not exceedingly ill bored (as many are), will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards: it may even at 100, but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, provided that the antagonist aims at him; as to firing at a man at 200 yards, with a common, musket, you might as well fire at the moon.” –British Major Hanger, on the “Brown Bess” musket In contrast, the American Long Rifle (as carried by the Irregular companies), was effective in ranges up to 300 yards, and headshots could be achieved at 200. At these ranges American Snipers picked-off high ranking British Officers. During the battle of Saratoga an American sniper brought down British General Simon Frasier from a range of 300 yards. Despite its advantages the long rifle had several disadvantages. Its slow reload time(2 shots a minute), and lack of bayonet fixture made it useful only as a skirmisher weapon, not for use as a standard infantry weapon.
As you can see from the table, the Rifle outranged the common muskets of the time by over 200 yards. The War of Northern Aggression (American Civil War) (1861-65) During the Civil War, the standard infantry rifles were the Enfield(for the south), and the Springfield(for the north). These were muzzleloading rifles with effective ranges up to 500 yards. The confederacy managed to acquire Witworth and Kerr rifles from Europe for their snipers. These rifles had an effective range of well over 1200 yards, and hits were reported at over 1500 yards. Confederate Snipers were selected in a manner which has been used to select snipers in most present wars. The best men from each infantry regiment entered into shooting competitions. They were required to hit man-sized boards at 500 yards. The best shooters were given the prized Kerr and Witworth rifles. They then went through extensive training in the use of these rifles. The snipers were warned never to get within 400 yards of the enemy, but to use their superior range, to keep the enemy at a safe distance.
World War I (1914-18) US Snipers during World War I used modified, and accurized versions of the standard service rifle the Springfield 1903, equipped with 2 to 4 power scopes. Snipers during the war mostly sniped from behind the MLR, the main trench line. These snipers were Infantrymen taken off the line, and equipped with scoped rifles. With their rifles they could pick the enemy off 3 or 4 trench lines back from the MLR. The marksmanship standard for infantry of the time was to be able to hit a standing man from around 100 yards. The snipers were trained to hit targets from over 500 yards. World War II (1938-45) World War II snipers were selected in different manners during the war. I will concentrate on the Marine Corps Snipers trained at Green’s Farm because the documentation of this school and its snipers is the best. There, snipers were instructed in 5 week courses in marksmanship, camouflage, and field craft. They were trained to approach a target using stealth and to eliminate the target from long distances. These snipers were required to hit a moving target at 500 yards, and to hit a stationary target at 1000. They were equipped much the same way as snipers in WWI were. These snipers used accurized versions of the M1903 Springfield service rifle, the A1 or A3 variants equipped with 2 or 4 power scopes. Marine Infantry qualified at 500 yards.
Korea (1950-53) Korea, in the latter part of the war turned into a bogged down war of attrition, looking somewhat like the trench warfare of WWI. This, alongside Korea’s terrain of rolling hills combined to make it prime sniper territory. Sniping tactics in Korea did not change much from the tactics of WWII so I will not elaborate on them. The rifles also remained the same. Snipers in Korea were equipped with 1903A3 Variant Springfield’s, and National Match M1’s(which were used in competition shooting because they were more accurate than the standard M1) Equipped with 4 power scopes(the M1D model). The accuracy of the M1 was not as good as that of the Springfield, due to the need to offset the scope, and have major Eye Relief built-in to the rifle due to the Clip Feed of the M1. These M1’s still were able to reach ranges of 500 yards accurately. In Korea the use of the .50 caliber round for sniping was first seen. M2 Machine Guns mounted with a 10 power scope were able to reach ranges of 2800 yards effectively, Snipers also experimented with .55 Caliber Boy’s antitank rifles modified to take .50 caliber rounds, and mounted with scopes which had the same range as the M2, but was able to be carried by a man whereas the M2’s were limited to fixed positions.
Vietnam (1965-75) Vietnam is the perfect example of how a sniper can be employed during combat. The restrictive ROE and vast open fields and rice paddy’s of Vietnam became prime sniper territory. The Marine Corps and the Army both Fielded Snipers. Army snipers were equipped with accurized versions of the M14 service rifle, accurate out to 700 yards. The Marine Corps fielded snipers equipped with Winchester Model 70 Hunting rifles firing the .30-06 cartridge, and later in the war snipers carried the M40, which fired the standard 7.62x51mm(.308) cartridge both of these rifles had an effective range of over 1000 yards. Also snipers used modified M2 .50 caliber machine guns, fitted with scopes. These were accurate to ranges out to 2500 yards. Normal infantry of the time fired the M16 Assault Rifle, and the enemy fired the AK-47 assault rifle. These rifles were designed for infantry combat which takes place in ranges of only around 200 yards, and can only be fired accurately up to 500 yards. Thus snipers were able to operate with impunity from beyond the range of effective return fire of the enemy.
Now through all these wars several things have remained in common among snipers, lets analyze these facts: A sniper acts independently from standard infantry, not as a part of a
unit but in a one or two man team. This is possible in paintball, most of the time in scenario games, I am alone behind enemy lines trying to accomplish a mission. But you do very little if any tactical good for your team waiting in one spot for an entire game, hoping a target of high-value (such as the opposing general) walks by. A sniper does not act at random, he selects targets of high value and
eliminates them. Targets of High Value in a military sense are:
Targets of High Value in Paintball:
The problem with selecting high value targets in a scenario paintball game is, there are very few. The vast majority of players play independently, not under any command and they do what they want. What officers and team captains there are do not look any different than any other players. The Sniper fires at targets from
beyond the range of return fire by the standard infantry weapons, or from
distances that were beyond the training of the normal infantryman. As you can see from the diagrams of the Sniper Rifles of the Period in comparison to the standard issue infantry weapons, the sniper rifle always has a great deal more range than infantry weapons, and the sniper has been trained to an accuracy standard that is beyond that of standard infantry training. This is where sniping in paintball fails. All paintball markers except those equipped with the Flatline or Apex systems fire the same distance, around 25 yards or 75 feet. The Flatline will reach ranges of up to 150 ft, but because the ball loses velocity at the same rate as a normal paintball, the chances of getting a break, or a single accurate shot at those ranges are close to zero. The sniper uses a single accurate shot to take his targets down. The ammunition expended to kill ratio of a sniper in Vietnam was 1.7 rounds per kill. The average infantryman expended 50,000 rounds per confirmed kill. It is possible to take targets down with a single shot in paintball. However it is near impossible to eliminate a target with a single shot from beyond the effective range of return fire by the enemy. A sniper uses camouflage and
concealment to hide himself from his enemies to eliminate his targets. No qualms with this, it can be done. Most every scenario paintball player does it. Using camouflage doe not make you sniper. Now as you can see there are several places where sniping fails in paintball. Now look at the definition of a Sharpshooter: “A sharpshooter… is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises” From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert Ok, this looks a little more feasible in the game of paintball than the sniper definition doesn’t it? For paintball purposes we can strike rifleman, because there are no rifles in paintball. “who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises” This sounds feasible. The definition of a sniper that Spec Ops puts forth is one of an “ambush player” that fires from concealment, using camouflage. The problem with the Spec Ops definition of a sniper is that it perfectly describes the definition of a sharpshooter in a military sense. So we will set forth the definition of a Sharpshooter in paintball. This is what most of you would call a Sniper in paintball. A sharpshooter takes shots from concealment, shoots at targets as the opportunity arises, and uses a marker that has the same range as everyone else’s. This is not a Sniper. This is a sharpshooter. You will never be a sniper in paintball simple ballistics prevent this from ever happening. The fact of the matter is if you think you are a sniper in paintball, your terminology is wrong. The definition of a sharpshooter, fits paintball a lot closer that the definition of a sniper. But for those of you who insist that you are still snipers, look at an analogy: You work for a living. Your job is to go to people’s houses and businesses, to pick up their trash and take it to the dump. You drive a Garbage Truck. What would you be called, a Garbage Man, or a Professional Truck Driver? You would be called a Garbage Man, would you not? As much as you would prefer to be called a Professional Truck Driver, everyone would call you a Garbage Man because it fits what you are doing better than the title Professional Truck Driver does. The definition
of Sharpshooter, or a Designated Marksman fits what you are doing in paintball
a whole lot better than Sniper does. Stop fooling yourself. References: SNIPER- Adrian
Gilbert One Shot-One
Kill- Charles W. Sasser and Craig Roberts Marine Sniper-
Charles Henderson |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
djrock ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Guested - Filter Dodge 01/13/06 Joined: 31 July 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I really don't think there is sniping in paintball.
A true sniper racks up long range kills from a hidden location. In paintball when someone try's to snipe they will be found after there first few shots. And they won't be making long range kills. Even with a flatline 250 feet isn't that far away. Unless you are in some what thick woods. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() It's been changed jackass. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Justice ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Strike 1 - Sexual slurs 5/2 Joined: 20 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4454 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Your reply should be in the faq sticky Mr.Snake.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
the_ion ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 December 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 62 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
watch the one at the bottom
Concealed position shooting snipers dont exist^^ anyway this guy has a lot of good advice i recomend watching both seasons of his videos if you are new or if your bored Webdogradio |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Team "Suburbian Heros"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sneaky_sniper ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Guested - inappropriate link 01/13 Joined: 05 September 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1325 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
feel free to let this die now...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[IMG]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/sneaky_sniper/Invader_Zim.jpg">
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
evil_fingers ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Strike 1 - Inappropriate sig Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: Frisco Nor Cal Status: Offline Points: 7224 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
HOLY CRAP....this useless thread is still around, close it already!!!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Do not steal....the government hates competition!
![]() |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page <1 567 |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |