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cops took his gun, then he was robbed and killed..

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FreeEnterprise View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 at 8:09am
Over the rhine is a very dangerous part of my community. Which I get to drive through at times, as I have customers in the area... (the riots a few years back were very interesting...)
 
But, this story is typical of what we hear on the news every night.
 
The shop owner Wade Nassar worked at his store all the time, as it was too hard to find employees that wouldn't steal him blind... So he ran it all himself, working most of the hours it was open.
 
Being that he was located in over the rhine (downtown cincy) he needed a gun to protect himself from the monthly robbery attempts.
 
Nov 2007 he was robbed and the thief took $400 from him, (two weeks profits). He ran after the thief and fired shots at him unloading his handgun.
 
The police were outraged that he would try and do their job for them, so they took his gun.
 
 
Last night, he was robbed again, and this time, he lost everything...
 
I used to remember a phrase... Don't know where it came from, but it used to mean something.
 
Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.
 
RIP
 
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 9:05am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

He ran after the thief and fired shots at him unloading his handgun.
 
The police were outraged that he would try and do their job for them, so they took his gun.
 


So, he didn't act like a responsible gun owner, and got his gun taken away? I highly doubt the motive of the police in confiscating the weapon the first time had less to do with them worried about job security and more worried about him chasing someone into the street, and then discharging it multiple times while in the open street.

It is extremely unfortunate what happened to him. It really is. But, this just isn't a gun-rights thing.

If this place is robbed that many times, the problem is socioeconomic.


Edited by agentwhale007 - 04 March 2009 at 9:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 9:23am

Move. Also, the guy wasn't exactly a prince among men. Article states he was charged with illegally buying food stamp last year. Probably accepting them in trade for liquor or smokes would be my guess. Doesn't make it alright to pop a cap in his ass, but still he wasn't exactly on the road to sainthood.

RIP, you crazy old coot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gator Taco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 9:38am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

He ran after the thief and fired shots at him unloading his handgun.
 
The police were outraged that he would try and do their job for them, so they took his gun.
 


So, he didn't act like a responsible gun owner, and got his gun taken away? I highly doubt the motive of the police in confiscating the weapon the first time had less to do with them worried about job security and more worried about him chasing someone into the street, and then discharging it multiple times while in the open street.

It is extremely unfortunate what happened to him. It really is. But, this just isn't a gun-rights thing.

If this place is robbed that many times, the problem is socioeconomic.


Amen. While I'm all for the right to defend yourself and your property, emptying a hand gun at someone while chasing them down the street is NOT something I'd condone. Is $400 really worth the risk he was taking?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 9:43am

How did I know this would be a free enterprise thread?

Quote Nov 2007 he was robbed and the thief took $400 from him, (two weeks profits). He ran after the thief and fired shots at him unloading his handgun.
 
The police were outraged that he would try and do their job for them, so they took his gun.

Well... lets start with the fact that he shouldn't have shot at the guy as he ran away. You should never fire at someone unless they are a direct physical threat to yourself or someone else. Robbery is no reason to kill someone, especially when they are running away. I assume that you are a gun owner yourself, and thus, should know that.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 9:48am
Why do I get the feeling that nearly everyone who posts here saying "He shouldn't have shot at the guy" would have done exactly the same thing in the same situation.

I'm not saying it's right, in fact, I agree with you, he shouldn't have. But if you're faced with the threat of violence and 'Fight or flight' kicks in, and the means are there......I don't know how many of us would be able to say "Oh, the guy that just tried to harm me is leaving. All is well."

Now, EMPTYING the pistol is something else or course- a tad excessive.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 9:51am
We should just ban all weapons from the public.  Then crime would stop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 9:54am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Why do I get the feeling that nearly everyone who posts here saying "He shouldn't have shot at the guy" would have done exactly the same thing in the same situation.


He didn't even shoot the guy. He shot at him while running.

From the article:

Quote In November 2007, $400 was taken from his store. Nassar grabbed his gun and followed the thief out. He emptied the gun, shooting five shots and missing.


That's five stray bullets going into a presumably urban Cincinnati area.

I understand what you are saying, about you have to be there to understand it. I really do. But I also understand that if you do something like he did, the police are going to, and should, take your firearm away.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 9:59am
I agree that he shouldn't have shot down the street, (but this was over the rhine, where gunshots down the street literally happen every day...)
 
It was wrong; fine him, send him to some gun training classes.
 
But, Don't take his means of protecting himself away...
 
I wonder if he had 17 shots instead of 5 and had hit and killed the armed robber, what would you think then?
 
Should cops be allowed to fire their weapons on the street?...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:02am
When you use your rights to infringe on the rights of others, you forfeit those rights.

Firing his gun wildly down a street could have hit and killed any number of people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:05am
F.E. standard police procedure in ALL police departments is to impound any weapon used in connection to a crime, be it the criminal's weapon or the weapon used in defense. They do this not to put the owner of the firearm at any disadvantage or as a form of punishment, but rather for evidence and forensics reasons. If he hadn't fired when the assailant had already fled the premises, then he'd have still had his gun. The fact of the matter is that he discharged a firearm on public property and the police had to follow procedure. Ohio is a pretty decent state when it comes to gun laws, so are you telling me that he was so concerned about his safety but didn't go purchase a shotgun from the local Dick's sporting goods after his handgun was taken away?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

When you use your rights to infringe on the rights of others, you forfeit those rights.

Firing his gun wildly down a street could have hit and killed any number of people.
 
So now he is dead, because of thinking like this...
 
PS, the guy that killed him has multiple warrants alread out on him... But, the prison system is so overloaded that violent criminals are now roaming the streets looking for unarmed victims...
 
Everyone knew this guy wasn't armed anymore...
 
 
It was only a matter of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:10am
We all gotta die sometime.  Quit your crying and move on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:20am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

It was wrong; fine him, send him to some gun training classes.
But, Don't take his means of protecting himself away...


Reckless disregard for public safety while using a deadly weapon is not something we should be giving out  fines for.
 

 
Quote I wonder if he had 17 shots instead of 5 and had hit and killed the armed robber, what would you think then?


The same thing I think now. You shouldn't be firing your gun in public while trying to chase someone down.


 
Quote Should cops be allowed to fire their weapons on the street?...


Allowed to? Yes, of course. They also:

1) Go through a quite extended time of training on how to do so properly.

2) Know when to do it, and when not to. I am going to bet, Dune can help me out here, that a suspect running away with $400 in stolen goods is not one of those times when discharging your weapon is permitted.


Edited by agentwhale007 - 04 March 2009 at 10:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:23am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
So now he is dead, because of thinking like this...
 


No, he is dead because someone shot him while robbing his store.
 
He has obviously been robbed before. We know this from the story. Now, I am not sure, but from what I can gather, previous robberies were done at gunpoint.

While bring robbed at gunpoint, he didn't brandish his firearm. He waited and then chased them out. Or did nothing, or whatever.

What was to keep any of the other people robbing him from shooting him where he stood? The gun under the counter they knew he wasn't going to reach for because he had a gun pointed at him?


Edited by agentwhale007 - 04 March 2009 at 10:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:29am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Why do I get the feeling that nearly everyone who posts here saying "He shouldn't have shot at the guy" would have done exactly the same thing in the same situation.


He didn't even shoot the guy. He shot at him while running.

From the article:

Quote In November 2007, $400 was taken from his store. Nassar grabbed his gun and followed the thief out. He emptied the gun, shooting five shots and missing.


That's five stray bullets going into a presumably urban Cincinnati area.

I understand what you are saying, about you have to be there to understand it. I really do. But I also understand that if you do something like he did, the police are going to, and should, take your firearm away.




I agree with you 100% Maybe my saying "We'd do exactly the same" is erroneous. Would the majority of us have done something SIMILAR? Quite possibly. I don't know as though we'd go tear assing through the streets of Cincinnati shooting at someone who tried to rob us, but a shot at the guy while you're still suffering a massive dose of adrenaline coupled with a dangerous cocktail of other emotions isn't too far outside the realms of reality for most people.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Why do I get the feeling that nearly everyone who posts here saying "He shouldn't have shot at the guy" would have done exactly the same thing in the same situation.


He didn't even shoot the guy. He shot at him while running.

From the article:

Quote In November 2007, $400 was taken from his store. Nassar grabbed his gun and followed the thief out. He emptied the gun, shooting five shots and missing.


That's five stray bullets going into a presumably urban Cincinnati area.

I understand what you are saying, about you have to be there to understand it. I really do. But I also understand that if you do something like he did, the police are going to, and should, take your firearm away.




I agree with you 100% Maybe my saying "We'd do exactly the same" is erroneous. Would the majority of us have done something SIMILAR? Quite possibly. I don't know as though we'd go tear assing through the streets of Cincinnati shooting at someone who tried to rob us, but a shot at the guy while you're still suffering a massive dose of adrenaline coupled with a dangerous cocktail of other emotions isn't too far outside the realms of reality for most people.  
I think the majority of us, as would be indicative of the general population would have called 911 and than grabbed the mop to clean up the mess.
 
Here is todays update. They have a suspect and the cause of death was blunt force trauma. Sounds like if Nassar would have pulled a gun, he probaly would have just ended up getting pistol whipped with it.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:38am

Actually, I could argue that he had a right to shoot at a retreating armed robber...

 
According to Ohio law.
 
You have an obligation to protect yourself and others if you are in fear for your life, or their life...
 
So if someone walks up to you and points a 45 in your face, and demands your money. In a downtown store, where there are bound to be others in the area... You give him your money and he runs away. That robber is still armed and dangerous. And everyone in the area is in danger of being killed by him, as he obviously has no regard for human life...
 
If you saw anyone in the path of the robber, you would be protected under the law if you shot and killed the robber if you were "in fear for their life". Or even if you were in fear for your own life, if the robber was swinging his gun in your direction while running away...
 
If an armed robber is running away, he can still discharge his firearm and kill you by shooting behind him...
 
So officially you would still be "in fear for your life". Standards that fit the current law in ohio...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:40am
Running down the street shooting means shooting without aiming properly. That's a huge gun safety violation.

Yes, many of us would have done the same; but that doesn't mean:

That response cannot be trained out of us.
That it's still grounds for letting the guy get off scott free for doing something so reckless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 10:45am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Actually, I could argue that he had a right to shoot at a retreating armed robber...

 
According to Ohio law.
 
You have an obligation to protect yourself and others if you are in fear for your life, or their life...
 
So if someone walks up to you and points a 45 in your face, and demands your money. In a downtown store, where there are bound to be others in the area... You give him your money and he runs away. That robber is still armed and dangerous. And everyone in the area is in danger of being killed by him, as he obviously has no regard for human life...
 
If you saw anyone in the path of the robber, you would be protected under the law if you shot and killed the robber if you were "in fear for their life". Or even if you were in fear for your own life, if the robber was swinging his gun in your direction while running away...
 
If an armed robber is running away, he can still discharge his firearm and kill you by shooting behind him...
 
So officially you would still be "in fear for your life". Standards that fit the current law in ohio...


That's a wee bit of a stretch.
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